Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 At the end of the day, if I'm playing cops and robbers, it ain't no hard feelings. If you a cop and I'm a robber,
Speaker 1 00:00:06 We're both doing our
Speaker 0 00:00:07 Job. Come on now. Yeah. Cowboy and Indian. It ain't no hard feelings. You play cowboy. I'm Indian, I cho, I wanna be an Indian. I wanna be a robber. So why I'm mad at you cop when you get the robber, it's your job to get me. It's my job to make it so you don't get me. I ain't no feelings in this. I know what I'm doing. So we teach that, ma'am, you run from the police, the police kick your ass. Well, guess what? You got to throw the gun away. Take the ass whooping. They didn't catch the gun. That was a un that was an understood unwritten rule. You on, you get your ass kicked so you don't go complaining.
Speaker 1 00:00:41 It certainly used to be
Speaker 0 00:00:43 You don't go complaining. It doesn't
Speaker 1 00:00:44 Have anymore.
Speaker 0 00:00:45 You threw the dope. But because no one is being taught this is right and this is wrong. Okay, you wanna sell drugs, son? Okay. Get you some money. Have your lawyer money, bond money and commissary money. Cause you going to jail. Tell him,
Speaker 1 00:01:12 You know, sometimes the best ideas are born from people who come from opposite sides of the tracks that bring new perspectives to the table and are willing to listen and learn. This cat was brought to my attention by a good brother of mine and down in San Antonio, Kirk, Simon Dinger, shout out brother. He sent me some videos and said, man, this guy's controversial, but is substantive. He's got ideas that align with a lot of the things that you're trying to do on this podcast. I completely agreed. The more I watched, the more I was intrigued. Once I looked into this, I realized, Hey, this cat is local. So I reached out and we linked up for a 30 minute coffee. Three hours later, uh, we decided, Hey, it's time to go. We kind of both had wished we had recorded that session. Uh, also, but, so this may be one of many podcasts perhaps, but it highlights the fact that we have so much more in common than our differences will outweigh.
Speaker 1 00:02:07 So that's the important thing to remember here, is that both of us are trying to accomplish a lot of the same things. And, uh, it's, it's been my pleasure getting to know him, and I hope to get him to know, get to know him even better, and feature him in more of these things. So, without further ado, I welcome the entertainer celebrity Charleston White to the T Cast. Check it out. I wasn't gonna start with this, but I may as well since we're on topic. How do you navigate threats, whether they online or whatever, how do you navigate that knowing that you're not gonna slow down? You say things that are controversial and everything else, but it's important that you say it. So how do you
Speaker 0 00:02:44 Navigate that? When, when I, when I look in the mirror, uh, before I face the world, uh, in my mind I'm speaking against evil. I say some horrendous things. Uh, I say some offensive things, uh, some disrespectful things. But as I'm speaking, there's no anger or hate in my heart. I don't hate anything. So, uh, just, just two days ago, uh, they probably spent half the morning putting my mother's address online.
Speaker 1 00:03:15 Oh,
Speaker 0 00:03:16 Yeah. Put my, put my address online. And so, uh, I I go to a silent place and, and I tell myself, uh, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil. I'm saying, man, come on God. I'm speaking against evil. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> God. So, I, I can't, in my mind, uh, man, I don't think God is gonna let anything happen. I, I, that's my belief. Uh,
Speaker 1 00:03:46 How do, how do the people around you feel? Because you're in, we're in similar circumstances, right? Yeah. When you get a threat, you have to take it seriously, because look, if you were just a single dude, living on your own wouldn't be a problem. Screw them. Right? What happens, happens, whatever. I get that, but man, you got a family. They're putting your mom's address on my
Speaker 0 00:04:03 Person. Everybody's worried. Uh, everybody's worried around me. Uh, you know, my, uh, my wife leaves early in the morning, so she's worried, uh, the neighbors, Hey, man, this somebody, the neighbors is worried. Yeah. Uh, they're afraid. And, and I try not to let their, their fear, uh, succumb me. Uh, I, I care that they're afraid. Uh, but I try to be fearless for them. Uh, we can't control what's gonna happen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, I, I I, I remind myself and, and the people around me that, that, that God, the, the creator is, is he's the author of life and death that's outta my hands. And I don't believe I've done, uh, anything. Uh, man, I,
Speaker 1 00:04:52 I, I, that deserves a death penalty. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:54 Man, I just, I, I, that's what I'm telling myself. Come on, man. I know I'm still, uh, but I'm, I'm, I'm poking at people that will kill you. Right.
Speaker 1 00:05:01 That's, that's my point. Yeah. I'm
Speaker 0 00:05:03 Poking. And so,
Speaker 1 00:05:03 Look, so in, in the analysis of this, like, um, so you say you don't think it, it would deserve it, but you know, you have people that you're dealing with Yeah. That have very little to lose. Yeah. So that's, that's one thing you also have, you're talking about, uh, working, you know, getting your security team together for Houston. Those are things that you can't stop what's gonna happen, but you can mitigate
Speaker 0 00:05:22 What's gonna happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:05:23 Man, my, so you can put things in place. In other words,
Speaker 0 00:05:25 Uh, uh, me and my mother, uh, my pops uh, my grandmother, uh, everybody's afraid I'm gonna get it one day. Hmm. That's their biggest fear. Uh, and I'm saying, well, what about the guys who's giving it to people? When are they gonna get it? Why? Why is it just the good people? Why we gotta get it? Right. So there's a, there's a faction in my community that believes, because I'm speaking against the negative things in our community, that it's gonna bring bad energy and karma to me. And I'm saying, uh, I'm willing to sacrifice that. When, when, when, when, when, when I decided to change my life, I discovered a purpose. But prior to discovering that purpose, I found an identity. I was a, I was, I wanted to be a pimp. I wanted to be a gangster. I wanted to be a killer. I was a crip.
Speaker 0 00:06:16 I wanted to be all these things. I never desired to be a man. Only when I was a boy, when I was a boy, I wanted to be a man. But as I started to grow older, being a man was, was something I never desired to be. I wanted to be everything but that. So then I had a child. My son gave me my identity. I'm a father. That identity gave me the strength, the power, and the tool to look at my gang buddies and said, no more. What's up, man? You said out. I don't give a damn. I got this son that gave me an excuse to quit everybody and everything. Yeah. So at this point, I don't know where to go in life. I remember my uncle saying, if, if you want to change your life from the streets, just turn right and go straight. And everybody used to laugh when he say that. It made sense when I started pondering on it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, makes a lot of sense. So, so I made a sacrifice just to walk away from the game you could get you killed saying, man, I don't wanna hang with y'all no more saying, I don't think how you think no more. I don't believe how you, that can get you killed where I'm from. Right. Yeah. Uh, just the difference of opinions. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1 00:07:30 And you have a lot of people in that, uh, in that environment that aren't like you in Yeah. In a way that when they have kids, they, they're not impacted by Nah. Their, their sons or daughters. Yeah. Like you were.
Speaker 0 00:07:43 So, when I, once I got past the fear of, of, uh, being ashamed because I don't have money, uh, being ashamed because I'm meant the bus stop. But even though I'm, I'm at the bus stop, I'm on my way to college, my car's broke down. So I had to get past all of that. So I made a sacrifice to get the one point to where I said, man, I don't wanna do wrong anymore. Once I got to that point, uh, it, it's just outta complete obedience. So I can't, I can't see wrong and be quiet. That's wrong. I, I man you, that's gonna get you in trouble saying that's wrong. Yeah. Uh, my mother says, silence is a form of agreement. So if we're silent in our communities about what's going on, then obviously we have to be in agreement with
Speaker 1 00:08:34 It. So is she complicit then with, with your, uh, endeavors to go out and speak the truth then?
Speaker 0 00:08:41 Uh, uh, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus'. Parents didn't want him to be who he was. And I ain't claim to be Jesus. Uh, my mother hates that I curse. She hates that I insult people. She hates that I use disrespect, disrespectful terms and terminologies. Son, you can speak better. That's what she don't agree with. Yeah. Uh, she don't watch none of my videos. You can't call and say, girl, I, she, she say, I don't know that side of him. Uh, because I'm, I'm pretending And
Speaker 1 00:09:11 You're speaking to an audience too. I mean, yeah, you're speaking differently now. Yeah. And I don't feel disrespected <laugh>, you know what I mean? But, but it is, it's, it's almost like, hey, when, when you're in eighth grade, you go to your junior high class and you, you talk the game, you do your Yeah. Your junior high kids and you curse and whatever at the school. You come back home and you speak respectfully. Yeah. So it's kind of your audience too. Right? Uh,
Speaker 0 00:09:32 When I left mom's house, my pants was pulled up, my hat was straight, uh, shirt, tub tucked in. When I got far enough from the house, I'm pulling them pants down, cracking a hat to the side. Uh, I knew to get right before I entered that door. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1 00:09:47 And that's outta respect of your audience or your mother in that case.
Speaker 0 00:09:50 So, outta respect for my audience, I speak they language. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I know to get right. When I come to my audience, I can't talk to my audience. Like I'm talking to you, I tried it and they were saying, ah, look at his eye. Ah, look at his gold teeth. They not shining that much. Oh, man. What's wrong with that shirt? Ah, look at his car. He driving a Chrysler 300 m Ah, so materialism and the fact that I don't look like what they admire, I don't sound like what they idolize. So I had to speak the language of the people. I do presentations for the United States Department of Homeland Security at Eastfield Training Academy. Uh, shout out to Agent Orange. Keith Orange. Uh, I don't curse. I, I, I tailor my message to the audience. Uh, if I, I've spoken at a, a Presbyterian church, all people that look like they sit on the jewelry 60 and up. I didn't curse. Right. I, so when I go to the schools, uh, I cuss because most of our kids have earphones plugged in the ear and you say, Hey, Johnny. Johnny, huh. Okay. And they put the earphone back in. What you think they hearing motherfucker shit, bitch, God damn suck. Kill this. So I've sat back and watched the kids play video games on Call of Duty Man's, some cussing kids in the world, <laugh> man on a K, fuck you motherfucker. Oh, man. And I'm saying, why are they so angry? So I'm saying, oh, well,
Speaker 1 00:11:28 I, I hear what you're saying. And I think it's actually, I think it's a real talent that you have, because not everybody could do that. It's one of the reasons why, you know, the path that I took was the path that I took. I support people that can speak to the community I'm trying to help. Yeah. Because you have some white stiff come out there. Yeah. Some old dude, white dude. Come try to speak to the community. You already know how many blinders you're gonna have to overcome until
Speaker 0 00:11:51 You get there. I've, I've spoken at just about every Tarrant County, g o p, Republican Party Country Club. I ain't curse at times. I would speak a a, a cultural narrative, but I didn't bring the character. The man Charleston wasn't effective. I, I, I've worked with over 50 US congressional members to, to get juvenile life without parole abolished in this country, uh, through youth advocacy. Uh, I've worked with the Texas Criminal Justice Coalition. Uh, I've partnered with state and local agencies to try to get the juvenile, uh, age jurisdiction raised in this country. Uh, man, I went to City Council, uh, every Tuesday for almost two years. Never missed, spoke on the community. So it wasn't until I, I, I, I dressed like what I was trying to advocate for. Yeah. Uh, until I started speaking, uh, I was in the hood saying, look at our little brother.
Speaker 0 00:12:56 Don't do that. Come on, sister. Say, come on, brother. Don't, man. They wasn't saying that when I heard they mother say, sit your god damn ass down. And they responded to that. You listen to the lyrics of the rappers, they're responding to these words. That's why our teachers really can't teach 'em. They, they can't receive the words. They can't. They, they, they're a square adults. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so that becomes the blocker, uh, when you're dealing with the youth. And so, uh, I became, I, I became the culture. My, I, I, I embodied the cult, the culture in this character, uh, vulgar, disrespectful, uh, bitch. Fuck you. Oh. Uh, that's, that's all in the culture. Yeah. When I'm riding in the mornings, taking my daughter to school, I'm listening to rap music because I'm a part of my culture. And this what made me stop listening to rap music with my daughter.
Speaker 0 00:13:54 In the car, there's a song by Future called Stick Talk. And there's a verse where he says, I ain't got no manners for no slut. I'm gonna put my thumb in the butt. And as he was saying it, I'm bouncing my head and look back there at my daughter. And she was just staring at, I said, man, and some little boy go put her thumb in my daughter. But when he go to school, man, oh, that bother me all day long. Why you say, oh, man. Because I used to, I used to pinch girl's button kick put my foot on the trail, so my, you know, pull. So I'm saying, man, they're playing this on the radio Yeah. Before school. But 20 years ago, you used to hear songs like, I Love School Before the Kids, they waited till the kids got out of the car.
Speaker 0 00:14:37 When we was kids on Saturday mornings, there was no commercials on our cartoons. So I'm saying, man, something has to change. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and I wanted to become the change that I wanted to see in my community. Yeah. Uh, and so I went back to the community that I was from. Uh, I stopped traveling around the country, uh, and man, I started a youth program, a youth outreach, uh, and stopped six. And, and, uh, I made it out poverty. My mother made it outta poverty. Uh, I went back and I, I kind of like you did. I slept with those people, ate with 'em, fought with 'em. Yeah. I did all that. Yeah. But I wasn't from there. They thought I was homeless, but I would get up late at night and go home, shower, come back and open up to feed the kids. They thought I was homeless. Hmm. Yeah. I slept. So I became them only so I can understand them. At first, I was speaking from a distance because I wasn't poor. Yeah. We was from stop six, but we made outta stop six. It wasn't what it is today. It wasn't extreme poverty. So if I'm gonna speak on it, I have to be able to understand it. Right?
Speaker 1 00:15:47 Not necessarily. Ha ha. Well, you have to have empathy at least not sympathy.
Speaker 0 00:15:52 Compassion.
Speaker 1 00:15:53 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:15:54 Compassion. Even if you don't have empathy, compassion.
Speaker 1 00:15:57 But a lot of people feel like if you didn't come from their circumstance, and this doesn't have, this isn't exclusive to the communities that we're talking about too. This is, it's a military counselor, everything, whatever. Right. You want to talk to somebody who's lecturing you or giving you ideas. Typically, you want to hear those from people who've been through what you've been through. Most definitely. Right. And that's kind of the chameleon you are, which I appreciate because your truth is the same. Yeah. But your delivery is different.
Speaker 0 00:16:24 Uh, if, if, if I'm going a battle on the battlefield, I want my sergeant to have been in war, to be training me for the battlefield. Right. I don't want sars who hadn't been out there. Right. Uh, and so, uh, all my life, I wanted to be out there. Here I am coming from a, a loving home. My mother was God fearing, got up and worked every day. I never seen a man come out of a bedroom. I've never been abused. I, I wasn't neglected. I wanted a father. My mother thought she was doing the best thing by keeping men out of our home, because it wasn't no positive. Male images. Nowhere. Granddaddy been to prison, uncle's been to prison. Mom's cousins been to prison. All, all. There's no positive males. Nowhere. So my mother say, I better, no. So she did that in her younger years, only for when we started getting to our pre-adolescent stages, my mom started looking for men for us to connect to, but at this time, we're resentful toward men because when we hadn't had one. Mm-hmm. So if you show up trying to be authoritative, and you're not trying to connect, then you push, we push, you push, we push. And there's never a build
Speaker 1 00:17:35 A typical kid thing too. Yeah. Typical kid, a new man, it was like, yeah, but
Speaker 0 00:17:39 You're, but you're showing up, but you're showing up at my adolescent stage when I'm the most fucked up. Right? Yeah. I'm, when
Speaker 1 00:17:46 You know everything.
Speaker 0 00:17:46 Yeah. When I know everything, I'm just starting to get hair on my nuts. My friends words mean everything. My peers opinions mean more than what my parents say. So you and you're showing up.
Speaker 1 00:17:58 We need to get her. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:17:59 Yeah. That's her. And, and, and, and, and you're showing up saying, don't do this. Don't do this, man, I needed you seven years ago. And these words would've been received much easier. Yeah. But if you come in and meet the need, because you can't Correct. You can't correct anything if you don't have a relationship with
Speaker 1 00:18:21 It. Right. So how is that where the, the need meet starts as they just need to connect with you as a person
Speaker 0 00:18:27 First? So I tell, I tell white volunteers when they work with the kids in the Texas Youth Commission, don't let your lack of blackness stop you from connecting with that kid. He's a human. Yeah. You're a man. He's a boy. You know what he's going through. Just
Speaker 1 00:18:42 Don't introduce yourself and start lecturing. Yeah. Because any kid's going to,
Speaker 0 00:18:46 Hey, man, what's your name? Uh, what kind of music do you like? Uh, what's your favorite song? Who's your favorite rapper? Now how you get that kid? He's just blowing you off just saying some shit. But when you come back, the next visit, and you say some of those lyrics, you say, Hey, I went and looked up Lil Booy and I mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Now that kid is, oh man, for real. I listen to a few of his song. Now y'all got a connection, right?
Speaker 1 00:19:13 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:19:14 Yeah. So, I I, and I don't mean to cut you off. No. You're, I did the exact same thing with the Republican Party. I showed up with my hat cock, like this gold chain on right after the Trayvon Martin and, and Zimmerman verdict. Right. I went and connect with a, Hey, I understand that this party used to, uh, the fought for slavery. They're 100% responsible for all civil rights legislation. Man, they were, they was taken aback by a black guy with a mouthful of gold teeth talking about, I'm a Republican. I speak to you. I made a connection. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they invited me in and, and this, and, and, and when they opened the door, I said, Hey, listen, I went to the executive meeting last night and they shunned me. And, and, and Jen Hall and Shelly Pritchard said, oh, oh, I'm sorry. I said, no, ma'am.
Speaker 0 00:19:57 Ma'am, no, ma'am. I understand that this party used to be the party that fought for us to get outta slavery. And I want to get y'all back to embracing niggas ain't know what to say. <laugh>. I, I, I, I, I, our ancestors call themselves blacks and African Americans in Negroes. This new generation Holland, I'm a bad bitch. I'm a real nigga. I'm a street nigga. I'm a driller. So we ain't what they think we should be. This is who they are today. So let's connect with this today. Yeah. So we can repair it and fix it and, and, and, and bring some healing. And, and, and as we do that, we begin to bridge gaps.
Speaker 1 00:20:37 So I know I've, I've worked with all levels of folks too, and I'm sure you have as well. Obviously you're talking about the gamut at this point.
Speaker 0 00:20:45 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:20:45 So, so, but you're an, an adolescents and we talked about that, about how they take certain influence or they take feedback, whatever. Is there an ideal age if you could say, Hey man, this is the age to start. What's the, the prime age to
Speaker 0 00:21:00 Third
Speaker 1 00:21:01 Grade? I think positive influence,
Speaker 0 00:21:02 I think, I think third grade. I think we wait too late to try to intercept, uh, when they start having problems. Uh,
Speaker 1 00:21:09 You wait until they get invited to do something before you
Speaker 0 00:21:12 Say, when they, when they become at risk, we need to get 'em before they become at risk. Yeah. And, and where is that when they're the most innocent? First, second, third grade? There's not, there's not a a, a lot of programs that's geared at developing children at such a low level. Right. Uh, motor skills, uh, even trade skills. Uh, but the school system, they do a lot of focus and studies on third grade literacy tests. So if the school is doing that, uh, and, and there's reports that say that some prisons are, are built based off third grade literacy tests. I don't know how true that is. Uh, we complain about, uh, well, they're shoving homosexuality off on our kids. If we believe that, then that should be our counter. Right. If we believe our children are being exposed too early to things, we should counter the actions with the same actions with
Speaker 1 00:22:14 Your perspective.
Speaker 0 00:22:15 Yeah. Yes. Focus on
Speaker 1 00:22:16 Our children, somebody else's. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:22:17 Yeah. And, and, and I get that perspective from, from, uh, Frederick Douglass. Uh, one of his greatest quotes is, it is much easier to create strong children than it is to repair broken men. I'm the strong child that was created. Yeah. All of my homeboys and friends, they the broken men that's trying to be repaired.
Speaker 1 00:22:40 And so that said, for the people that are on a trajectory that you took, so you had a good upbringing, fatherless, however, yeah. Fatherless, you ended up taking a path that got you into trouble. And, and maybe we'll let back, back around and talk about that. Well,
Speaker 0 00:22:55 Well, we can, we can, we can, we can take him there. Right? Here. I grew up believing from a cultural standpoint that what makes a black man a man, if he go to jail or prison, granddaddy, uncle Wayne, uncle Curtis, uncle Joe, knock it, Curtis, uncle Busk, Keenan Googie, all the men that's just within the family. This is a kid with a young, impressionable mind trying to make sense of life and life's characters. Mom, dad, uncles, cousins, teachers. So
Speaker 1 00:23:31 Without a real concept of what that means. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of, it's, it's its own little fallacy up there. Like, Hey, this is makes you tough, but you never really,
Speaker 0 00:23:39 Well, it's that
Speaker 1 00:23:40 Right of passage teaching. Like teach an 11 year old about love. It's like, dude, you, you're not gonna teach 'em anything until they experience something. Right.
Speaker 0 00:23:45 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's the right of passage because, uh, men did, I, I cry when I say this on the inside, man. We was in sixth grade at Atherton Elementary, practicing our walk for when we go to jail or prison. You have to think, I was born in 1977 for the first half of my life, half the shit we watched on television was prisons. Because you have the black exploitation television era, right? Yep. My uncle was a pimp. One of our be favorite movies was Superfly, the Mac Pimp movies. My Grandma Grandmama, behold I ain't, man. That wasn't frowned upon. So we grow up watching these movies. By the time I was eight, nine years old, I can recite everything in that movie. So now, uh, here come the other movies. So by the time I'm 10, 11, 12, me and my momma at work, mama say, don't go outside.
Speaker 0 00:24:47 You stay, y'all in this house and you did what Mama said. Back then, you might look out the door <laugh>. But all day long what you, while your mama's at work trying to provide a good living, she done already cooked dinner. She done left instructions. Leave your homework out. Cause Cause she get off at two in the morning. She's gonna call every break. So we have to answer the phone. Yeah. So, uh, we leave a homework out and make sure you take a bath. She get off at two in the morning. If that homework is not done, she gonna go in that bathroom and check that soap and see if it wet. You are waking up the, yeah. So, uh, so she was pretty strict and, and firm and consistent. Uh, but man, that, that, that lack of father creates a, creates a anger and resentment and, and a boy that nobody can explain until they start getting in trouble.
Speaker 1 00:25:31 So what are some alternatives that you are aware of? I mean, obviously there are programs and are other things that, do a lot of them work? Or is it kind of age-based? Or
Speaker 0 00:25:40 Is it No. Uh, well, well, well, what happens is the adults pick the program for the kids. They don't let the kids pick who they want. Who, who, who they need to mentor them. So what happens is they come with all the rules and stipulations saying, okay kid, this is how me and you're gonna engage each other. And the kid has no say so.
Speaker 1 00:25:56 But the kid doesn't have a perspective yet. I mean, the kid just thinks he knows everything. Right.
Speaker 0 00:26:00 The kid, the kid have an insight that adults lose knowing who's bullshitting him or not. Okay. Yeah. The kid know who's bullshitting or not.
Speaker 1 00:26:09 Yeah. Cuz they, yeah. They don't have the intelligence level, but they got intuition.
Speaker 0 00:26:12 Intuition. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:26:14 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:26:14 And they got a resiliency that we lose as we get older. That's how they get through what they get through the kid that's getting molested. And it seemed like it's never gonna end. It takes resiliency to keep having to go through that.
Speaker 1 00:26:27 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:26:29 We would hang ourselves, we would give up. These kids still go through, come to school hungry, look dirty. And because they look like this, there's a label put on them based on their behavior,
Speaker 1 00:26:42 Which just exacerbates the whole situation. But
Speaker 0 00:26:45 They still find a way to be a kid and smile throughout the day.
Speaker 1 00:26:49 Yeah. And that age is going down every year too. Because now that everybody gets on YouTube and learns stuff too, these 11 year old kids are, know what
Speaker 0 00:26:57 Suicide is. Well, we, I was just about to say, we, we, we've seen over the last five to 10 years suicide rates of, and I, I used to think that was fake news. And, and, and I won't apologize for that. I used to think that was fake news when I seen 11 year old found hung in a closet because of bullying. I said, man, that's bullshit, man. No. My, I couldn't, I mean, you couldn't make rap my mind around it. Yeah. But I had a friend, uh, who hung himself when he was 17 years old. And he, and from the time he was 14 or 17, he always would say it. We never believed him.
Speaker 1 00:27:24 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:27:25 But, so I'm gonna go back to your question. So when you're dealing with kids, kids already feel like they don't have a say-so in anything. They don't have a say-so in who wants to mentor them? Uh, well, some mentors are just talking at 'em. Can't relate on nothing. It makes the kid more resentful. It, it, it, it, it pushes a further gap. That's why's such a big gap between the old and the young. The young now hates the old young people think it's something wrong with being old. They curse being
Speaker 1 00:28:00 Old. That's not new news though. Oh,
Speaker 0 00:28:02 Yeah. Cause yeah. Yeah. I used to think something wrong with old people
Speaker 1 00:28:05 Too. Yeah. I mean, you know, they're just square old people. I mean Yeah. They don't know what's cool. And so you think, you know what's cool? I mean, we went through that too in our youth, you
Speaker 0 00:28:13 Know, but, but, but think about a community in a village that don't have old people. We got young people who don't see old people. Their grandmothers are in the early forties. There's no great gray beard grandfather.
Speaker 1 00:28:29 Yeah. That's not really old. They think forties old.
Speaker 0 00:28:32 Yeah. I thought 30 was old. Man. I cried when my mama turned 35. I thought, yeah. I thought her life was over when she turned 35. <laugh>. Yeah. I thought she was old. Oh,
Speaker 1 00:28:40 Please make me 35
Speaker 0 00:28:41 Again. But, but what I'm saying is those old traditions that normally, uh, when we used to see grandmother in the courtroom and she stand up and talk and the judge and everybody in that courtroom will listen to grandmother. She was an honorable, dignified woman that don't exist in some communities anymore. Mainly mine. When you look on social media, you don't see the, the, the elder presence of black people and young people exchanging our traditions and cultures. That's why black culture is all about hip hop. Now, we've gotten away from our elders and that was because of the crack era.
Speaker 1 00:29:21 And even a lot of the success stories that exist. I mean, when you and I were talking last time, I said, I think a lot of the misconception, ignorance, all the way to bigoted white people's, their avatar of a black person is, is a thug. And that's, that's, that's not accurate. Nah, it's not accurate at all. But that is why I think a lot of the ignorance perpetuates because when you say, Hey, uh, you know, Julie's cousin's going out with a black guy, immediately there's this perception and Julie's
Speaker 0 00:29:54 Gonna be a single mom soon. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>. Well,
Speaker 1 00:29:57 I'm serious. I mean, I, I I thank you. And you don't even know. I mean, my orthopedic surgeon to black man, I love him to death. We're great friends, man. That's
Speaker 0 00:30:06 Not who people think of. I saw being Carson ride by the stop six projects black man. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, but when you don't have that to see, you don't see a black banker. When you go to the doctor, you don't never see a black doctor who speaks English. Now you may see a black principal, but most of the time that black principal is, is is responsible for your referrals, your discipline. Uh, so you can't receive him the way you would. So when you come outta school, you come outta your house, your, your mother don't take you to the bank. And when y'all go in the bank, it's a bunch of black people in there working. They, you don't see that. You see the gang banger, you see the drug dealer and all of those guys look like who? The rapper, the kid don't have a clue that the rapper is actually mimicking the people in the streets. The kids are mimicking the rappers thinking the rappers are the real street guys. The rappers are just propagating the street bullshit. Right. Because it sells.
Speaker 1 00:31:06 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:08 The kids have the young, impressionable mind. They really can't decipher if that man on television really died. That they be prevented every, they don't know until they know. So some children have access at man that phone, the radio, the lyrics, porn, they have access to it. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. We've taken that away from my babies. And so I understand that. Uh, everything that I, I I mimicked as a kid. I learned because I saw it. Children mimic what they see and repeat what they hear. For sure learned. I learned to cuss cuz my uncle and them was cussing.
Speaker 1 00:31:50 Right. And you knew it was bad and they did it. So it made it even more intriguing for you. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:55 Yeah, yeah. So when my mother said, don't do this, I wonder why she say don't do it. And I do it. Don't, don't do. I did it be when my why mama say don't do it. It it, it strike. It intrigues me on why they saying not do it.
Speaker 1 00:32:08 It almost help her. She said to do it <laugh>,
Speaker 0 00:32:11 I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. <laugh>. So, but as a kid, you're trying to process this little brain of yours and, and you're so dumb because you think, you know, and they're stupid. Right. You really believe this. But your feelings control you, not your thoughts. So that's why I defend children who get in trouble because these aren't permanent decisions that they're, they're just impulsive. The the human brain, the brain development part. I i, if we can teach that to children long before they start bucking and, and and being, uh, you know, the teenage adolescents, they, if we can teach that the awareness and the knowledge that men and you don't have a fully developed brain, you have to pay more attention to what you feel because you're really governed by your feelings at this age.
Speaker 1 00:33:10 Well cause there's no life context to apply. There you go. And they just haven't felt it yet.
Speaker 0 00:33:15 So, uh, as parents, why did you do this? And you be hot at, man, why did you do this? And that kid, I don't know. Yeah. You know, I, I don't know. They really don't know. They just felt it. And, and we're asking them to give us a logical explanation. It's up to us to look at the behavior and the actions and explain it to them. This is wrong. This is right. Children have to be taught how to do what's right. You naturally come out doing what's wrong. I know guys were never really taught what's right. I know guys watch they mamas get beat on the girl who he dated, watched her mama get beat on. So he beat on her. And don't nobody say nothing because this is okay. Even the mother tell the daughter, baby this. What do, so he don't know nothing wrong with this. He, it feel bad. He feels horrible. His mama got beat, his grandmama got beat. His sister get beat. And every woman he done never laid with gets beat. How do he know that's wrong until y'all come take to jail and say, this is wrong. A lot of our children don't know what they doing is wrong until they get in trouble. Or
Speaker 1 00:34:22 They, a lot of, a lot of those abusers too inherently sense that it's wrong, which is how it stays. Because they come back six hours later and say, look, I'm so sorry. This is not what I'm trying to do. They know it's, they know it's wrong. They just
Speaker 0 00:34:36 Don't have, it's a feeling of powerless that he can't deal with. It's that uncomfortable feeling because that's how, that's, it's all about a, it's a power struggle. Yeah. He wants, but he really feel weak. He really feels shame. He don't know how to process it properly other than hurting. Cause he hurting really.
Speaker 1 00:34:53 So I may, this may pivot a little bit. How much of this, um, cuz I, I've had a lot, I've had a lot of discussion about, uh, all the way systemic racism, all the up to some of these issues that we've been talking about. How much of this do you think is actually socioeconomic versus race? Uh, how much of this is really about poverty?
Speaker 0 00:35:15 So I think classism more than racism. So poverty, the haves and the have-nots. Uh, I, I think we're in the Victorian age and modern day time, uh, if people, uh, studied to Victorian age, it was rich and poor. There was nothing in between. The rich never went down there. It was slums. It was disease. We we're almost to to, to that point in, in this country. If it wasn't for the great middle class, the middle class have not died yet. They haven't died yet. Those people are still alive. And, and, and they're still vibrant in this
Speaker 1 00:35:48 Country. And we're trying to bring them to the table. This is what we
Speaker 0 00:35:51 Do. So, yeah. So that's what I'm saying. So, but, but, but what, but what, what kills them if we hiding racism, because most middle class people live next door to black and white people. I'm the first generation of black kids in the eighties. Got to go to school with white people homie after the civil rights.
Speaker 1 00:36:07 But you still have the systemic part. Well, that's, that puts and keeps a lot of, uh, minorities in poverty. Well, which in turn causes more of the issues.
Speaker 0 00:36:16 It, it only does it if you don't know it. It only keeps you there if you don't know it. But if you understand that it's systemic. Right. Once you get your education, you can beat it. Once you get your education, once you know how to talk, sit up straight. Look a man and I, yes sir, no sir. Have a work hard work ethic. Show up at work on time. Even a most racist white man of backup off of you. He's a hard worker. So we, we've, we've beat racism in this country. Racism have not won in America. How much worse can you beat than a slave? How much worse can you beat than hanging from a tree? So if I go into the court system, systematic racism, I already know that. So I try to stay out the court systems <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:36:59 And that, that was born of the slavery era. And the other things, and again, it, what it does is breed ignorance. A lot of things. It's on you too. I got, you know, friends that call me and ask me, what do I do? What do I do? And I said, look, don't get tired of explaining to me what else I can do because I have to ask people. I said, look, I think I know what I'm doing, but I could be ignorant as anybody else. So I think
Speaker 0 00:37:22 Helps. I think we're dealing educate yourself. I think bureaucracy, ideologies, prejudice, and social economics is hurting America because you, you, you're the people in those bureaucrats, uh, uh, are positions. Most of those people retire 30, 40 years. They, they're not elected people. The president change it, but they don't change. It's their ideologies. When I submit that application and plot for something, yeah. It's their prejudice in the way. I used to believe that, uh, racism was embedded in, in the fabrics of America. I think that's been unthreaded because America has 99 tongues in it now. It ain't just the white man and the black man. America got bigger problems than their attitude toward their black people. If, if, if, if I go on a job and, and, and, and this job is mostly white managers, what am I to expect? I'm gonna say that's systematic racism. But man, if I come in there and I sell myself good enough, because I've been able to get past it. I've in front of a judge and was sincere and I know they supposed to give me sin. And, and, and because what that judge saw, he had compassion and mercy. We can beat it, man. Evil has never won. Right. When we study history, it has never won.
Speaker 1 00:38:51 And those people exist
Speaker 0 00:38:53 Still today
Speaker 1 00:38:54 For sure. But so do the others. Well, and we still have the others, which again, is why we're in the middle and why we have to be cautious when
Speaker 0 00:39:01 We, their voices allowed the, the the others. Their voice is louder. That's it.
Speaker 1 00:39:05 100%. That's it. That's the whole purpose of this conversation is that their voices are louder.
Speaker 0 00:39:11 So, so, so let them yell. And we have dialogue with our youth because our youth don't sing that song. White kids love Steph Curry. White kids love LeBron Jane. White kids love Lil Wayne, Drake 21 Savage Man. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, uh,
Speaker 1 00:39:32 But even that feeds a stereotype. It does inadvertently. Right?
Speaker 0 00:39:36 Well, only for us. I think they're waiting for us to leave so they can just have fun in America. <laugh>, I think the young folks are just waiting be because, uh, it's our belief from where we come from. It's not where they come from. Man. When you think about the Kardashians, man, you think about, uh, Lamar, Odom, Kanye with, man, you can't, it's hard for our kids to say racism. That's why you don't find too many black kids mad at white peoples hollering, racism. You, you, you hardly find any more mean white kids, just hollering nigger, when I was a kid, you heard at all the time, you hardly see black and white kids fighting in school anymore over racism. Even in rural towns. They're meeting up somewhere. They're meeting up somewhere in their life, in their world. And they're finding out that the hate and the prejudice and the, the the racist belief that we have is bullshit.
Speaker 1 00:40:40 It's slowly, I mean, it's getting there, like you said, it's getting there. I think everyone has the right idea, but you still have a lot of people that are ignorant to certain things they don't realize. That's why the fact that systemic racism, racism is even debatable is amazing to me. Because people will actually say it doesn't exist. Well, it,
Speaker 0 00:40:58 It, it does. We, it we, it's, it's, it's evidence that, that it does exist. There's, there's real human testimonials, uh, that, you know, we've seen for sure we've seen it.
Speaker 1 00:41:08 But that's part of the ignorance, is that now that it's been set up and set into motion, and your four or five generations are mo removed and, but you're still practicing things that just are, you don't recognize how just are is wrong because it's just the way things are. You don't even, you don't, you know, a white person doesn't have the context to understand that. So trying to get somebody to,
Speaker 0 00:41:33 But when I hear that it's just the way things are, I automatically say that's wrong. That in my mind, that's the justification to just keep fucking over people. It's just the way it is. <laugh>, that's the, just because I'm with you, I've been hearing that in the entertainment industry, getting fucked over when, until you find out the truth. And then once you get the truth, you find out it is not just the way it is. Right. But you don't know until you get to the truth. Right.
Speaker 1 00:41:59 I, but how do you get to the truth if people are denying that it exists?
Speaker 0 00:42:02 I don't know. I'm trying to figure that out now. <laugh>. Uh,
Speaker 1 00:42:05 I think we're doing it here. Uh, like I said, I think there's a lot more people like you and I even that disagree, that are, are willing to be at this table and have this conversation until the truth is found in, in everyone's mind. Well, we're just not nearly as loud or we're
Speaker 0 00:42:19 Not
Speaker 1 00:42:19 Boxed in though. We're not, we're not sellable.
Speaker 0 00:42:21 We're not boxed in though, I think, I think they're boxing theirselves in. Oh,
Speaker 1 00:42:24 For sure. But they still get the loudest voice. That's why you're the chameleon. You're the guy, man. You can still be the loud dude, but you have substantive truth to speak.
Speaker 0 00:42:34 I challenge me. Uh, uh, I challenge me, uh, I don't challenge other people's beliefs. Uh, I don't want to try to change anyone's beliefs. Uh, I want my actions to show what I believe. And, and, and most people with those loud voices, uh, at some point in their life, I believe they see the truth through, through an experience, uh, with another human.
Speaker 1 00:43:00 You hope. I mean, it depends on, I mean, situations, I mean, always bring up, look at, look at the Indians. I mean, we put them in a situation where they're, they're not discriminated against because they're completely ignored. We don't have to see them anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:43:12 <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:43:12 I mean, that's even one step worse. Yeah. This would be completely ignored. But there's no way to, there's no way to improve that situation until we start wanting to learn how we can remedy that situation. And that's what, that's what we try to do, is, is find some of these issues that exist and say, what can we do? Instead of saying, look, slavery was so, so long ago that this doesn't apply to me. We should still be trying to figure out how to help one another regardless.
Speaker 0 00:43:39 Yeah. Uh, if, if not, we'll repeat it
Speaker 1 00:43:43 For sure.
Speaker 0 00:43:43 If, if not, we'll, if not, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna withdraw from one another. We're gonna resegregate America. Uh, and then America will be like the reconstruction era again. Bunch of Hayden killing. One of the worst times in America was the reconstruction era, uh, trying to build a railroad through America. I'm convinced, I'm convinced that, and, and, and, and I don't say this to be racist, <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:44:16 I was like the set up. Yeah. I I'm, no offense, I'm
Speaker 0 00:44:20 Convinced, I'm convinced that we've become too hateful as white Americans, black Americans, Arab Americans, Hispanic Americans, we've become too hateful. Uh, that we won't get to see the peace and love and harmony that, that, that we all desire to have. Uh, I think our kids will get it. And, and and I say that because my grandparents was racist. My children's grandparents on their Hispanic side was racist, but when the baby was born, it killed it. Yeah. My grandmother and my, they, they, they didn't like Hispanics, you know, uh, they didn't like whites. Uh, I was called a nigger by my Hispanic baby mothers grandmother. What that nigger doing in the house. Mm. When Grandpa Richard came home from federal prison with all these tattoos on him, uh, he didn't like the fact that, uh, I was dating. But man, when Miho was born, my grandson were born. Uh, me and Grandpa Richard became friends, me and grandma b uh, so I, uh,
Speaker 1 00:45:29 That's beautiful. Yeah. And you try to figure out, again, all that is, is finding something that is so uncommon that it's undeniable.
Speaker 0 00:45:37 Right. We're all
Speaker 1 00:45:37 Human. We have so much more in common than we do. Less in common.
Speaker 0 00:45:43 I could never get my hair like you, but boy, we got more in common than anything.
Speaker 1 00:45:46 I, oh. And I can't grow a mustache either, so you can't, this is six months. We'll work right here, man.
Speaker 0 00:45:52 Six months. I would go crazy if I couldn't grow a mustache. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:45:54 That's why my fishbowl days is like, this was about this long. That's about all I got, man.
Speaker 0 00:45:59 Oh yeah. No wonder. Yeah. Yeah. You can still got the baby face looked in. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:46:03 Yeah, yeah. Hey, man, when I'm 70, I'll be loving it even more. Yeah. I'll take it all day long. Yeah. I cried when I was 32.
Speaker 0 00:46:08 Come on, <laugh>. But, uh, we can change the narrative. I still believe in love. Uh, I still believe in good people. Uh, I, I still believe, uh, that there's honest people in the world. Uh, I I, I, I still look at the glass half four. Uh, that's the hope, uh, because I came from love. I I came from, uh, saying I'm sorry when you was wrong. Yes ma'am. No, ma'am. Uh, give your cousin a hug and if y'all done kissing makeup, then since y'all acting like, you know, make, make it right. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I, I came from that and, and, and, and even though I tried to abandon it, I, I even went to a stage of life where I rejected it. I wanted to come back and pick it up to pass it on to my kids. So, uh, we can't give up. We, we, we can't.
Speaker 1 00:47:03 For sure. I mean, we're, we're both fighting the battle from different angles. Yeah. But we're both fighting for the same thing. Yeah. I hope you,
Speaker 0 00:47:09 You know that. Well, I know that, man. Listen, I met Miss Nicky. I met her son, uh, long before we sat down. I know what you did. Uh, it's, it's a, it is, it's, it's not spoken on. So I know you not trying to champion. I found that out on my own because a kid got in trouble. He was hanging with some more kids, robbing a bunch of shit. And he was finna go away for 20 years. At 18 years old, his mother would come down to the bar that we worked at where I worked at the CLEs with, and she told me his story. And in the process of me telling her, telling me his story, you came up and what you did for her and not just her, a whole bunch of other kids. And so that's when you got on my radar. So I I know we working for the,
Speaker 1 00:47:55 For the That's great. Well, I appreciate that. Again, I've Yeah. I don't usually speak on Oh, I know,
Speaker 0 00:48:00 But the things I'm trying to do. Right. But but that's, that's a what we're trying, but I'm saying, I'm telling to you that's a testimony. Uh, that's a testimony. So everybody ain't saying fuck Tegan. It's, it's a lot of mothers, uh, in, in, in some of them gangster niggas. They ain't gonna admit it. Uh uh. You a hero. You don't claim it. But the spirit of what you left behind, you got to know his ain
Speaker 1 00:48:24 I love a lot of those dudes too. So I just haven't poked any bears, you know, but I have, you ain't got to good relationships with all of those guys. I don't blame 'em for, you know, when I come out of my persona or whatever. So much of that persona was me. And so the, some of the relationships felt real to me, although I completely understand why they wouldn't buy it afterwards. But Yeah. Uh, and several,
Speaker 0 00:48:45 Well, if they were smart, they'll do just what uh, Frank Lucas and that other cop did and made American gangster, one of the biggest movies we done seen in the last 20 years. <laugh>. If they were so, if they was, if they were smart. Uh, because at the end of the day, if I'm playing cops and robbers, it ain't no hard feelings. If you a cop and I'm a robber,
Speaker 1 00:49:05 We're both doing our job.
Speaker 0 00:49:06 Come on now. Yeah. Cowboy and Indian. It ain't no hard feelings. You play cowboy. I'm in you. I cho I wanna be an Indian. I wanna be a robber. So why I'm mad at you cop when you get the robber. It's your job to get me. It's my job to make it so you don't get me. I ain't no feelings in this. I know what I'm doing. So we teach that me, you run from the police, the police kick your ass. Well guess what? You got to throw the gun away. Take the ass whooping you. They didn't catch the gun. That was a un that was an understood unwritten rule. You run, you get your ass kicked so you don't go complaining.
Speaker 1 00:49:41 It certainly used to be
Speaker 0 00:49:42 You don't go complaining. It doesn't have
Speaker 1 00:49:44 Anymore.
Speaker 0 00:49:45 I you do the dope, but because no one is being taught this is right and this is wrong. Okay, you wanna sell drugs, son. Okay. Get you some money, have your lawyer money, bond money and commissary money. Cause you going to jail. Tell him.
Speaker 1 00:49:59 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:50:00 Don't ignore it. But you can't bring that dope in here. Say what man, you better get outta here with them guns. You've not bringing that here. And then sit him down and tell him what this is gonna do.
Speaker 1 00:50:10 The perspective, it's the key, right? Yeah. Remember, uh, you know, before I got into doing a lot of the undercover work, I did tons of the reading on the, the topic. I even read a, a book that a guy wrote on how to smuggle <laugh> <laugh>. It was fascinating. But his whole thing and right in the beginning of the book was,
Speaker 0 00:50:27 Look, you locked up abroad in one of my favorite motherfucking shows, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:50:30 So he said, so his whole thing was, he started the book by saying, look, you've got about a, a 20 year lifespan in this and plan on spending between eight and 11 of it in jail.
Speaker 0 00:50:41 Man,
Speaker 1 00:50:42 That perspective, even before you read how to do it, I was like, okay, this is a trade off. You're gonna, you're gonna live on your, uh, on your cost.
Speaker 0 00:50:50 Cost and benefits. Yeah. They used to teach us that in the boys' home where your cost and
Speaker 1 00:50:54 Benefits. And then you gotta, then you've gotta teach that. I've heard you speak, I know you gotta bring the true perspective of what prison life really is. Yeah. Because on the street, the perception of prison life makes you, makes you, gives you street credit. You know, but that, but when you really get into it, nobody even, you know, everyone that's been there doesn't, doesn't want to go
Speaker 0 00:51:13 Back. Nobody speaks highly of it.
Speaker 1 00:51:15 And there's, yeah. So you've gotta be able to express that too. I know guys who and associated with something. They
Speaker 0 00:51:20 May be understand. I know tough guys who say I'll die before I go back. And they survived. They made it. They they ruled in there. I know guys say they'd rather be dead than to be in jail. Yeah. Those guys who have been there, guys who really ain't been there, they, you know, like how I was and, and I say this and, and and and and, and that's, this is the kid in me as a, as a black boy who, who want to be a man and who was misguided, misled and tricked into gangsterism. At times when I'm in certain circles or I have to defend the fact that I've never been to prison. I feel like I've missed out on somebody not going to prison. I feel like they got us up on me. Man. I feel like we all got medals. They got more medals than me cuz they been to prison because in certain conversations and in certain worlds you couldn't have walked the yard. I made it 12 year.
Speaker 1 00:52:27 Yeah. They got the clout. You, you're not in that conversation. And
Speaker 0 00:52:30 Boy they chebe stuck out and the women eyes be goo and got got guy and he looked like it's, it's a bravado ness that I wish I had some time.
Speaker 1 00:52:40 I think we've all been there with, with entertainment industry stuff. Does that all the time too. Yeah. You know, you watch a movie and somebody's doing something and, and we all get that. Man, I wish I could do that or that, but it's, it's all a facade. Right.
Speaker 0 00:52:53 It's all listen but
Speaker 1 00:52:54 To what kid can't flip that.
Speaker 0 00:52:56 That's why I hate prison pictures. I hate prison pictures on social media because it give off the same effect that the military guys give. That the swat guys give that the pope boys it, it give off the same, it looks, it looks manly camaraderie. And you say, man I want that man. The way they standing int oh they, and I say man, that's bullshit.
Speaker 1 00:53:18 Yeah
Speaker 0 00:53:20 Bullshit. So that's why I'm doing this man. Cuz somebody gotta call out the bullshit. Nobody called it out for us. Yeah, nobody.
Speaker 1 00:53:31 And when I call it out, you know this ain't, this
Speaker 0 00:53:34 Ain't work. Yeah man, they go first ain't go how you white
Speaker 1 00:53:36 Man <laugh>, they're gonna listen to me. No,
Speaker 0 00:53:39 A a 93 year old woman house was shot up, made the front page news on Hattie Street, 93 year old woman house over 2325 something assault rifles, three different kind. I see it on the news. I see the Fort Worth Police Department gang unit over there. I hit up the gang unit Hey, I wanna help that woman house get fixed. Come to find out they shot up the wrong house, found shoot up the God's house next door. Who mother works for the Sheriff's department? Everybody stayed silent. Everybody stayed silent at that point. I said, enough is enough. 93 year old, her daughter lived across the street when they heard the shots, all they can think about is, this is the time of the morning when mama get up and go to the restroom. She just laid there as the bullets sled through the house. That's when I took my stands.
Speaker 1 00:54:36 I've heard you talking on this too. And it was one of the things I wanted to cover because it's always been something I battled from my perspective and looked, you know, my law enforcement careers long behind me. But it was something that was frustrating. But then the more time I spent in the community more, I gained an appreciation for why it does happen. The difference being between, if you have, let's say you have nothing to lose when it's your sister, because nothing else is more important. Yeah. But I learned to gain an appreciation for, again, when you're in a community full of people that we're not full of people, but with plenty of a populace of people who have nothing to lose and will come by and shoot your grandmother's house up. And that is your motivation for keeping quiet. How do we, how do we change the culture of the way that people think so that the community backs people that are trying to support the better. Good. Because I can actually appreciate if, you know, look, I can tell on so-and-so on Jojo, but I go back to my neighborhood and everything's fine. But if I gotta go live three blocks down and drive by their house every single day, and I know it's gonna be a problem in my community, that's appreciable to me. I understand that, that that could be a big deal. The
Speaker 0 00:55:54 Community, uh, it has to be a few people in the community willing to die for this or it ain't gonna change because
Speaker 1 00:56:02 People do already die
Speaker 0 00:56:04 For it. But, but, but they not, they're not dying for standing up against Rome more, more or more, uh, put into silence. That's why the police got to come out and work and knock on more or put into silence. Fear and shame. Fear and shame is probably right up under love and power. If I had to put love, fear, and shame on a scale, love go way heavy. But boy, that shame and fear won't be too far behind it. The fear is gonna come from, we gonna get you, man. They sniff your snitch. Okay man, I ain't gonna tell nothing. The shame come from everybody saying that's a snitch. And in this community, a snitch is worse than a pedophile. And a child molester, a woman beater a snitch is a snitch is worse than the person who kills the old woman. A snitch is worse than a person who stumps and kills the baby.
Speaker 1 00:57:13 So how do we flip that? That's
Speaker 0 00:57:15 A lie. We gotta shame the rules. We gotta do to them what they doing to us. Shame and fear.
Speaker 1 00:57:22 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:57:23 Okay. You gonna do this? I'm willing to die to call the police on you and put you in jail. I'm willing to shoot it out with you. I'm willing to die and kill you to put you in jail for what? You So the same fear I got. I done made my mind up. I'm willing to die, kill and go to jail.
Speaker 1 00:57:40 You're asking for a whole lot from people, which, I mean, you're right. I mean, if you had heroes that did that, what about how many heroes that do that that end up in a ditch and again, get Well, it was a snitch, which is again, they just discounted. They're trying to do right.
Speaker 0 00:57:55 We watched, we watched, we watch Upset Mothers do it. We watched fed up Dads come out to the black. Right. See what I'm saying? But
Speaker 1 00:58:02 It is a different perception.
Speaker 0 00:58:03 But they have a value for something. My value is, my value is I love all y'all in this community. I love, I love life. I love the fact that my kids, I don't have to have kids to love to not, man, we all got some value. If nothing else property value, you gonna run down Grand mamamama, property value
Speaker 1 00:58:26 <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:58:27 If nothing else, man. Property value <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:58:31 Yeah. I kept thinking, I kept thinking, uh, you know, when I, when I was working, I felt like I was the only one that was super, super careful to protect my sources. Like to me, if you had walked up to me and didn't know me and said, Hey man, so-and-so's doing so-and-so, I wouldn't force you to testify for that because you said it out loud. I'd be like, man, let me figure out a way that we can communicate where nobody's gonna know we're communicating. Cuz that information itself is so important to me. And your safety is so important to me. I think a lot of it comes from the law enforcement end too, where you get, you have enough, you know, you have enough cops in this city where the great ones are equaled by the morons, and when the morons shine brighter, it looks bad on everybody.
Speaker 0 00:59:15 I, I've been friends with law enforcement for probably about 10 years now, and I've come to learn. No one likes a bad cop, not even a bad cop.
Speaker 1 00:59:25 Oh.
Speaker 0 00:59:26 But even too, if a good cop tell on a bad cop, he'll be shamed for snitching. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:59:33 Exactly.
Speaker 0 00:59:34 So it's no different.
Speaker 1 00:59:36 It isn't different. And that's exactly right.
Speaker 0 00:59:38 So, so that's that system again. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> the system of snitching the ridicule and ashamed that comes with it. We have to undo it.
Speaker 1 00:59:49 Right. But that one's easier because I've al I've spoken out about that too, about when you're not willing to speak out about a cop that's doing wrong, then you don't deserve to be a cop. Cuz that standard you're held to a higher standard.
Speaker 0 01:00:02 Well, you gonna give 'em a good cop kill you all. You, you discredit all my good
Speaker 1 01:00:06 Cops. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. They just, all they do is make you look bad. Yeah. Because they're your brother in blue. I get it. I get it. I was there. I understand how there's a pride point and everything else, but it because of that pride point is the reason why you should be rat them out in eradicating all that stuff so that you have nothing but an AAM in there. Oh, but they have, they have a lot less to lose. Cuz all you're talking about in the cop community is that shame part. You don't have somebody driving by grandma's or yours or, you know, launching rounds into your house or getting you killed. Oh, that's different. Be
Speaker 0 01:00:39 Be because people think I'm a snitch and perceive me to be a snitch. Uh, I get, I get adult guys to threaten to rape my daughter. Uh, I get guys say they go kill and hurt my son.
Speaker 1 01:00:50 Uh, uh,
Speaker 0 01:00:52 Man, it's, it's, it's crazy. I I I I had a Hispanic gang member do a podcast one day and said if I, if I had Charleston White and r Kelly standing next to each other, I slap the shit outta Charleston White cuz he's a snitch. He piss on kids. You the you'll let the kid. Yeah, man. So we, so if I got to give my life, uh, I'm gonna change that homie. It's okay to tell, it's okay to tell if two criminals do something together, who cares? They snitch on each other. There's no honor amongst Steves anyway. Right.
Speaker 0 01:01:31 But what's happening is snitching have all have went down to the kids where if big cousin molesting the little cousin, don't snitch on me or make you quiet and holding the molestation. I've heard it, I've seen it in so many group therapy sessions. I didn't wanna be a snitch. Yeah. I've worked on capital murder cases on 18, 19 year old young men's partnering with, with attorney Mitch Note man, and, and, and Shannon Ross doing criminal defense mitigation specialist. This file says that this kid been molested, but he don't wanna say it cuz it's snitching. But if he say it, we can take these mitigating factors and get this life sentence off and get him 12 to 10 to 15 years. But he don't wanna be a snitch.
Speaker 1 01:02:18 Yeah. And he is willing to spend that many more years in prison. Again, that's, I think that's perception though too. That's not realizing how bad you're screwing yourself until you're already
Speaker 0 01:02:29 Locked up. But listen, that's the shame to keep daddy away. See, it's, that's the same shame to make daddy absent, man shame or make you walk away from your kids. I, I see so many men do it because they not, they, they feel less than a man. They don't have the money. The, the one men the shame just make 'em, just walk away. My daddy did it. Shame, shame or make you turn away from God. So imagine your whole community shaming you. You got every, they gonna shame your mama. They gonna shame. They gonna shame you for being, for doing what's right.
Speaker 1 01:03:07 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 0 01:03:08 For I i I I don't get it, man.
Speaker 1 01:03:12 Well, that level of humility comes with maturity. And that's what the problem that we're talking about is we're talking about 15 to 30 year old people who haven't reached a level of, of self-awareness and humility and willingness to say, man, I completely f this up and I humble myself in front of you. I'm so sorry. That's rare for a 19 year old
Speaker 0 01:03:34 Kid. Uh,
Speaker 1 01:03:35 <laugh>. It, it
Speaker 0 01:03:36 Is, it's rare for a 30 year old to look at his friends and say, Hey y'all, we wrong.
Speaker 1 01:03:40 For
Speaker 0 01:03:41 Sure we wrong. Yeah. The whole group say we wrong. And, but we think we right that. That's,
Speaker 1 01:03:47 That's that's the real leader though.
Speaker 0 01:03:49 Yeah. That's the real leader.
Speaker 1 01:03:50 But he's gonna be, but in your case, you say he is gonna get booted <laugh>. Well,
Speaker 0 01:03:53 Uh, depending on the relationship, he's the change, he'll become the change. Yeah.
Speaker 0 01:03:59 If, if, if he's the one with the respect, if he's the one that they kind of, kind of scared of, he got to be willing to go against it. And, and that's what changed America because for a long time, white people didn't speak out against slavery. They knew it was wrong. They really didn't know much about it until Mark Twain started writing about it. They didn't have television. No one knew the brutality of it. Right. But once they started seeing people hung, there was some people saying, ah man, we can't do this. But they couldn't say it publicly. You go hang too mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 01:04:33 <affirmative>.
Speaker 0 01:04:35 But at some point they started hanging with 'em. You have to be willing to make a sacrifice. Yeah. Even to lay your life down for what's right. To stand up for what's right. America do it all the time with this military. Whether they wrong or not, they say, we're doing this because we think this is right. When we think we right homie, we'll stand up and die for it even if we wrong. Yeah. So I'm saying, okay, y'all, let's just get right. Say right is right and wrong is wrong. No matter who it is. Cop black person, no matter who it is, that's wrong. Let's just start right there.
Speaker 1 01:05:16 Amen. That I think that's where the, the white saber complex comes in too. Again, it's the same type of thing as look
Speaker 0 01:05:23 Well I want, I won't listen. I worked at the class lady for 10 years old. I used to sit out there and every Thursday I see white people bringing bounce houses and, and water slide. No black people here come again. I golden white people. So then when it's Christmas time, boy, look at the white police officers passing out their bikes over there at their white church when you go to prison and it's cairos white people in there on Cairo passing out food. When I started teaching classes at the adult parole office with welcome back Tarn County on McCart every Tuesday and Thursday, it were white churches. So don't let the white savior come complex. Stop you from saving us, man. We need some white savior, we need some black savior, we need some, we need some saviors.
Speaker 1 01:06:05 Right. Well, and that's where the ultimately is. There shouldn't be a division. That's the whole point of it, is we don't want division. If if the green people were ruling the United States, then we as a u United States would unite and, and try to either overthrow the green people. Yeah. Or if the green people reached out and said, I have compassion. I understand what you're going through. I want to help you.
Speaker 0 01:06:26 Nine 11, you
Speaker 1 01:06:27 Be remiss to
Speaker 0 01:06:28 Not take the hell. Nine 11 racism left America.
Speaker 1 01:06:31 Oh
Speaker 0 01:06:31 Yes. That day racism did not exist in
Speaker 1 01:06:34 America. Man, that was the, the the greatest thing that come from that if there was such a, such a thing. I agree. It lasted almost two years.
Speaker 0 01:06:41 Man. I'm talking about man, racism didn't exist. Yeah. I want the sandy hook school shooting racism kind of. It kind of, so there's certain things that happened, tragedies that happened in America where we joined together for that moment. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we find some kind of way to put all this shit to the side and join in for that
Speaker 1 01:07:01 Moment. It's the Charleston white having a kid. Yeah. And then all of a sudden the family is united. Yeah. So we just need to find more of those things. Again, it's all commonality. It's now all of a sudden we're Americans, oh, last week we're an Americans
Speaker 0 01:07:13 <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:07:14 We're bickering over black and white and this and this and all this
Speaker 0 01:07:16 Sudden Democrat, Republican. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:07:17 We forget it because there are more important things that, that we can accomplish as one. Oh
Speaker 0 01:07:22 If, if if I think we, the people, if we looked at our politicians and forced them to stop the division by way of political parties and ideologies, and let's just fix the country, fuck the parties platform. Let's just fix the people in the country. We got to do that because between that, the media, police shootings, we got all these divisive tools mm-hmm. <affirmative> and we nev we, we never gather to focus on our similarities. We all humans in this country, we are all humans in this country. When the ice storm hit black folks, lights went out, Mexicans lights went out. We was all affected by that ice storm in Texas last year, homie. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we wasn't thinking racism then. We wasn't saying, oh men, the white man got my lights cut off. Everybody power was out. <laugh> everybody power was out. Mine was
Speaker 1 01:08:22 So, had almost the longest stretch in that
Speaker 0 01:08:25 One. So, so, but in those conditions we focus on similarities and, and, and goodness come out of us. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:08:32 We're chipping away, man. That's what we're doing. Right? Yeah. That's all we gotta do. There's little things the police need to fix. There's little things that socio socioeconomically we need to fix. Systemic racism. Both.
Speaker 0 01:08:44 They call it racists
Speaker 1 01:08:45 Here. And this, the racists over here need to fix what?
Speaker 0 01:08:49 And the criminal justice world, the theory is the holistic theory. The holistic theory. It takes all of us. The government can't do it. It takes all of us. The saying is, it takes a village to raise a child. Mom and dad trains up the child. Mom and dad trains up the child. Dudes don'ts. Right. Wrong. It takes the village to raise it. A lot of communities have great villages. That's why homeowners associations are good. That's why, you know, uh, new home development areas is good because they gonna make a village. Yeah. They gonna make a village. And they lived there for 15, 20 years. You know your neighbor, uh, that's the village. We just got a hood. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:09:37 Well, and one at a time, even within the hood eats little community. Look, you know the hope. Hey
Speaker 0 01:09:42 Neighbor, we bringing the neighbor back. Yeah. Hey neighbor. Bringing the neighbor back to the hood. So it, I became a change that I wanted to see.
Speaker 1 01:09:52 Well, God bless you man. You're a badass.
Speaker 0 01:09:55 Thank I love you too.
Speaker 3 01:10:00 What you going do? What you gonna do? Success around the second grade rules. A to make you do what they want is the one to see you through. Don't those the the game, the truth, soul. What's that stake? What you got to lose when a simplified plan turns back on you, the sand rules broke you. The truth is so motion and there will always be power where you stand if you know that you're facing in the right direction. The sun only rises on one.
