Bobby Rock: Addiction, Loss & the Art of Staying Hungry at 62

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I'd heard that Danny was associated with Vinnie Vincent, who just left Kiss, and they were going to be putting a band together and all that. So I packed up the brown Ford Econoline van and, and, and drove out by myself to Los Angeles. They told me there was going to be just like a 10 minute screening audition. He goes, so just like play a groove, like an AC DC kind of groove. Vinnie told me, you know, if we were playing in an arena somewhere, you know, and they were responding to all that. So then it's 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 40 minutes, you know, and then, then it was just like, it was like a drum clinic kind of thing. Just before the hour. Mark Vinny says, man, sounds great. So listen, just play a drum solo now, you know, as if we were, you know, And I'm like, I was thinking myself, what the you think I've been doing for the last hour here, you know, the singer pulled me aside for. He goes, listen, man, unless somebody comes in here with three arms, you got the gig. A student called to say that she wanted to take lessons because she's, you know, she was kind of a part time drummer but was gonna be doing some track dates, so. So she came out for a lesson. And that is when I met Sherry Foreman. It was just one of those merging of spirits, if you will, you know. And so we were just on a karmic collision course. We move in together and everything was just flying. January of 93, we found out she was pregnant. And we were just kind of managing. It was a difficult time financially and logistically. Plus we had a kid on the way and all that. In the middle of it all, on one evening, March 30, 1993, we both left the house, got back home around midnight, and she wasn't home yet. Thirty minutes later, I noticed there was a blinking answering machine in our bedroom. So I hit the button and it was somebody calling from Northridge Hospital. She said, well, Sherry was stabbed in the abdomen. She's at the ATM, and we don't really know what happened. She's pulling 40 bucks out of there. The guy tried to rob her. We don't know if she resisted, but it was. It was a single knife wound in the belly, and she didn't make it through that one. [00:02:20] Speaker B: My guest this week is someone who steered the course of my life and probably doesn't even know it. Bobby Rock was my drum teacher when I was just a teen. And not just a teacher, a mentor. The kind of guy whose swagger laden encouragement makes a kid believe he just might actually have a shot at this music business. Bobby's one of those reasons I went pro. And let me tell you, Bobby took his own talent and ran with it. He's built a life out of it. Touring the world, running drum clinics, writing books. And he's been holding down the kit for Lita Ford for the last 13 years. But here's the thing about Bobby. Underneath that successful music career is a guy who's lived through some of the most extraordinary experiences you'll ever hear about. And we get into all of it. So please help me welcome to the show my great friend, Mr. Bobby Rock. This one's personal for me. I know you've done a million and a half interviews, but I really want to make sure we're diving deep into kind of who you are and how you've gotten here. The trials and tribulations. That started early, right? Even so, I'd love to talk about some of that stuff where you. [00:03:23] Speaker A: Where did you grow up? [00:03:24] Speaker B: Tell me about a little bit about that, because my understanding is you got into some addiction issues super early. So early. I would love to hear about how that happens, especially as early as you went into. [00:03:38] Speaker A: Right. I was born in Northern Cal, but my dad got a job in Houston back in the. In the big rush, you know, in 69, 70, something like that. So that's where we moved. I was five at the time, started school there. Just the typical middle class, you know, leave it to Beaver kind of vibe, as you might expect it. I have one older sibling, a sister. And, you know, I was a baseball kid, you know, always normal. I think where it all went awry, if I had to kind of trace it back, was Alice Cooper Killer, that album. I blame everything on that. To start with. My sister was seeing one of the neighborhood, little hippie guys, you know, and he had the record one day. And of course, I saw the name on this. I go, who's she? Goes, well, she is this character here. For those who don't know, the Alice Cooper Killer record has this gatefold with where Alice is hanging by a noose. He's got blood all over his chest. And one of the greatest band photos of all time on the back cover, man. So I was even playing an instrument. But I just saw that and was just mesmerized by, you know, the. The taboo nature of. What is this how he died, man? He goes, no, that's how he lives, you know. Yeah, but so anyway, that was. That was exhibit A. And exhibit B was about six months later when I Saw another, the other dope smoking hippie of the neighborhood playing drums to Black Sabbath, Volume 4, Wheels of Confusion. And that was the light bulb moment for me. I said, that's my way into this [00:05:13] Speaker B: world, something, something tangible at that point. [00:05:15] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And my dad had played as a hobbyist for a short time, then he had a couple kids, so he had to put the drums away and get his accounting degree. So I talked about him bringing the drum, bringing the drums down from the attic, and that was the beginning of it. And I mentioned that because I think, you know, at 10 years old, you know, starting to play drums and I needed to join a band right away, of course. So I found the only other kid I knew played guitar was. I called. I'm working on memoir right now, by the way, so I refer to him as tc So I don't have to give the guy's full name, but he was quite a, quite a case study. I can only imagine these days what all he would be diagnosed with, you know, but. So he was not a great influencer, to say put it that way. And then just in my, my youth and wanting to fit in with the older kids and all that, you know, I would start, you know, I started experimenting even at that young age, you know, smoking some weed, drinking some beer, this kind of thing. And then just as my drumming journey began to grow over the next several years, private lessons, jamming in the band and that kind of thing, so did my, my usage, you know, of the weed and alcohol. So by, by 13, it become more or less a daily Bayota fair, you know. Wow. [00:06:32] Speaker B: I mean, it seems like it'd be difficult to get away with that, even you would think. [00:06:36] Speaker A: But in the, in the grand glorious 70s, you know, we had. The alcohol was the easiest to come by because like, my, my parents were active in a lot of different things. I had a couple neighborhood kids whose, whoever's parents were gone. We'd go rob that liquor cabinet, you know. [00:06:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:51] Speaker A: And then TC had older siblings who always had weed around, so he could always go in and, and get a few joints we called them back then, you know, the strawberry rolling paper and all that. So we managed, man. And so that was it. I mean, I don't have a particularly impressive stoner resume, I always say, because I just, you know, weed and alcohol was pretty much the extent of it, but it was a problem. [00:07:17] Speaker B: It didn't serve you well, obviously it was. How did that come to a head, though? Because you, you actually went through a full program and everything, right? [00:07:25] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It just. Things became unmanageable, you know, Every day after school, I'd come home stoned, and I'd give my sister a hard time. My mom. And it got to the point where. And these are normal, calm, you know, straight ahead, no abuse. You know, the parents. But my mom would wind up, you know, chasing me around the house with a Hot Wheel track, you know, those orange. You know, and I'd be laughing and running, all that. And then when dad got home, it was serious. And back in the day, man, in the 70s, and you could you get your ass whipped with a belt? I mean, and that wasn't. That was normal. That's what everybody did. Even at school, you got paddled. [00:08:00] Speaker B: That's right. Not abuse. Not abuse. Not technically abuse. [00:08:05] Speaker A: So things got real. Between school, all the trouble there, and getting suspensions and coming home with the principals, the notes and all that, it just kind of, you know, early in my eighth grade year, it was just coming to a head. And plus, you know, like, I think my stomach, you know, the alcohol and those things, you know, I was sick to my stomach often. And these bouts of, like, what I know now were kind of depression and whatnot. It was just too much for a young body like that, you know? [00:08:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:34] Speaker A: So ironically, TC had been in this place called the Palmer Drug Abuse Program. It's kind of like it was adapted from AA. 12 steps. You meet there twice a week. And he goes, listen, man, join this PADAP thing. That's what they call them, pdap. They'll get your parents off your ass. We can keep getting stoned on the side, and life will go on as normal. So I came home a few days later with another note. So I had to come up with something. I go, mom, listen, I think I have a problem. I think I need to go to this program. So she freaks, goes to the white pages, calls the place and books an appointment for the next day. And although that morning I smoked some weed before school, the next day they took me out of school like it was a doctor's appointment to go meet the counselors at this place. That was September 14th, 1976. Wow. All right. We just got through the bicentennial. [00:09:28] Speaker B: Yes. Special quarters and everything. Yeah, I remember those days, too. [00:09:32] Speaker A: I remember that man. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Fellow olds. [00:09:35] Speaker A: And of course, walking in there now, I could have never imagined that 50 years later, which is coming up this year, I would have 50 years of sobriety. [00:09:44] Speaker B: That's bad. [00:09:44] Speaker A: But I wasn't planning on it. But I walked in and guy was really cool, and. And And I kind of, I kind of bolstered the resume a little bit as far as what I had been up to because I didn't think what I was doing was enough of a problem, you know. And basically what he said, he goes, well, listen, I want you to try this for a month. What can we do? I just. Are you willing to give this a shot for a month? I'm like, well, maybe. And he goes, I'll tell you what, I was smoking cigarettes, of course, at the time, and they had given me a cigarette in the, in the meat in the thing there and back. Then, of course, the 13 year old kid again, he goes, I'll tell you what, you like to smoke, right? I go, yeah. He goes, I'll tell you what, my parents were in another room, by the way. So he says, I'll go, if I could have you smoke in front of your parents, do we have a deal? I went, hell yeah, we have a deal. I'll go for a month if I can have to hide my smoking. So he went next door to talk to the parents and kind of leveraged that. Listen, we need to, we need to, you know, extend the olive branch to your son. Just let him smoke in front of you and I'll get him sober for you kind of thing, you know. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Fascinating. [00:10:44] Speaker A: So he comes back over, he goes, all right, you can now smoke in front of your parents. I go, you're shitting me. Seriously. You know, so. And the final thing he said goes, listen, try for a month. If you don't like it, come see me. I'll give you a bag of dope. That's what he told me. I remember he said, bag of dopes. I remember. Is that pills or powder or weed? You know, at any rate, that was it, man. So I just. So I actually went to a meeting that Saturday morning and really dug the vibe. There are a bunch of, you know, the cool, relatable people, kids like me. [00:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:14] Speaker A: And I just, I decided really to give it a shot. A couple other things happened, but bottom line is, you know, my boy TC wasn't too thrilled about it, so we kind of went our own separate way. But I found a couple other guys that jam within the program there. And that was it, man. Just two meetings a week. I got involved with all the different functions. They would have parties on the weekends and this whole kind of thing. And I just part of that culture for a solid four years, all the way through till 12th grade, basically. That was a big part of my childhood. [00:11:46] Speaker B: Do you think any of that would be an attribute toward you having. Do you think it's part of your personality that took over the maybe obsessive kind of personality that you, Were you able to take that and transfer it somewhere positive? Do you feel like that? I mean, it's. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Yes. Right now, you just hit it, man. You just hit the secret. You know, it's the number one thing I talk to. But with anybody who has an addictive personality that's showing up in the way of drugs or alcohol. Like, to me, drugs and alcohol aren't the problem. They're a symptom of a problem. To me, the problem is a misdirected addictive personality. Like there's, Yeah, I call him Mr. More like M O R E. Mr. Moore. Yeah, because he always, you know, he, he's always negotiating to get more. And of course, when it's in a bad way, it's always one more drink. One more. Okay, I got a half a bag of weed. I'll have half of it today, half of it tomorrow. Then you get to the halfway point. Well, I'll have a little bit more than I'll have a third of it. And then, okay, I'm just gonna smoke the whole thing. But then tomorrow I'll skip. And then, you know, it's the negotiator, you know. And that's what addicts do. You know, they negotiate everything. They're always more, more, more. What I discovered early on is it can work in the opposite or in, in a, in a positive way. You know, you could use it to become fanatical about, you know, practicing or weight training or running or what have you. I mean, I, I'll, you know, to this day, man, I, I, I. Mr. Bo, Mr. Moore is speaking to me, you know. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:15] Speaker A: Come back From a show 1:00am Go to the hotel. I'll walk by that gym. Man, I gotta get up at 6:00am no. Well, let me just go in and just do a few sets. You just get a quick pump, you know, and then you're in there and, and then you'll see that. I'll see the treadmill, lift the weights for 30, 45 minutes. Six. I should really. Maybe I'll get on the treadmill. So I'll get on the treadmill, start warming up. I go, man, it's, it's a, it's a nice night. Tonight I'm gonna go for a jog around this neighborhood where the hotel we're staying at, whatever, you know. Yeah, but, man, it's already, it's 1:30 now. Okay, well, it'll be a short run. I'll just do three miles or something, you know, and you start running and all this like, well, listen, you've already up. You're not going to get, you got to get up at six o' clock anyway. You're not going to get enough sleep. Go ahead and do five or six. Yeah. So it's. But now that's something that I keep hitting the mic here. That's something that is worthwhile to me. That's a worthwhile. So my whole life has been like that with, with regard to all the things that I feel like are productive. [00:14:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I like that too. The, the approach of being permissive about it. It's like, look, this is a part of you and that's okay. [00:14:17] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Not. Let's get rid of this part of you. Let's figure out where we can redirect this energy. Right. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Yes, man. I, I, I went I on the year of my, the anniversary of my 40th, I was playing in San Antonio. So the local pad app group there knew I, I blogged about 40 years sobriety. So they invited me to go speak at the group group. So I went and talked to everybody during the Q and A. Somebody said, so when was it that you stopped being an addict? You know, I go, I've never stopped being an addict. You know, I have to. It's something that's always with me. I've just been able to employ that, that Persona, whatever that thing is that makes us do this stupid shit and this, these destructive things. Yeah. I now employ as best I can. I still have to, you know, junk food and things like that. I can still to this day even vegan junk food, you know, vegan, vegan cupcakes. I gotta be careful, you know, because [00:15:11] Speaker B: they started making this stuff good. Because I'm, I have celiac. So trust me, I mean the first several years of that is like it's not a problem not to eat all this stuff. [00:15:21] Speaker A: Right, Right. [00:15:22] Speaker B: Because it tastes like hell anyway. [00:15:23] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [00:15:24] Speaker B: But yeah. So yeah. And they make dangerous foods now. So you dove into this was like. So after 12th grade, you have a point where you're obviously, you're still playing a lot and you're also. Is that what that when you got into working out and stuff too? [00:15:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I started running first around 12th grade. Eleven, 12th grade weights came a few years after that. Okay. Ironically, the drumming is, I think in 12th grade. I was at a point where I just started really getting serious about the, all the hours. Three, four, five hours a Day of practice and in the program, I just kind of had an organic separation from continuing to go to the meetings. So it just, I was able to kind of transition away from going to the meetings regularly and without more time practicing and all that. And it was a smooth transition. Then the following year I went to Berkeley, you know, in Boston and. Right. And got all that together there. So. [00:16:21] Speaker B: So that Berkeley decision is something that you see lots of cats do. And how do you feel about that experience? [00:16:30] Speaker A: First of all, it was game changing, life changing. It was the perfect thing for me to do at that time in my development. [00:16:38] Speaker B: Okay, because what was it about it that sparked you at the time? [00:16:42] Speaker A: Just the way it came about. Long story short was I had my Original band director, Ms. Thompson. I kept in touch with her throughout school. She was teaching at a middle school by the time I was in high school. And I had gotten after a dream jazz band competition, I got offered a scholarship to a, a, A junior college in Houston. I thought, oh, wow, this is going to be cool. So I went and tell her, but she goes. And she didn't seem too impressed. She goes, well, yeah, that's okay. But you know, why, why don't you go to the best? Berkeley's the best. Why don't you go there? I want me go to Berkeley. How about you? And here it was, you know, I can in May or June, and I go, could I even get in this fall? She goes, well, you won't know till you try. So I said, well, I mean, just send off for the catalog. Anyway, bottom line was they had an opening. I was able to potentially go there. So I flew out there mid summer to check it out. I turned in my application and all that. Oddly, at that time, you didn't have to do live auditions. It just whatever you put on your application, if they saw your experience and whatnot, they would bring you in, then you would audition for placement. But anyway, when I went there, man, it was like just stepping into a whole other level, you know, as you know, we all grow up in our own ecosystems of adoration, you know, whether it be high school, the local clubs, whatever. And we are, we are kings of our own little domains. You know, when you go to a place like Berkeley, you know, you learn in a hurry that now the ecosystem is whole and you're just, you know, [00:18:12] Speaker B: the world is big. [00:18:13] Speaker A: That's right. [00:18:13] Speaker B: There's a lot of bastards out there that can play. [00:18:16] Speaker A: That's right. You know, and you are a speck of fecal matter on the bottom of somebody's shoe there, you know, so you go in there and. But I, I, I, I wanted that. I was at a time in my life where I started getting a lot of jazz stuff. And when I went and just walked around and looked around at the place, it's all the, the practice rooms and everybody in there going forward, I said, man, this is where I need to be. Yeah. You know, and that was it. I was able to go that start that fall, and it, it was life altering, man. [00:18:40] Speaker B: And it's typically as everybody kind of treats music school as a stepping stone, oftentimes to a career. And I've, I've even mentored some cats that are thinking about leaving, and I, and I always implore them, like, make sure you want to leave, because once you leave music school, you're out. And then you, it's, it's almost unrecognizable. How the world is compared to being surrounded by peers that are so much better and everybody's learning and all that kind of stuff. How long did you stay and what made you decide to leap? [00:19:11] Speaker A: Well, to your point, I mean, I went my entire freshman year, of course, and then during my second year, I went. So I did three total semesters, and I was going to take the spring semester off and go that summer because it was just, it was quicker. It was more. I forget what all my reasons were, but I never made it back, man, because I just got caught up then in, you know, bands and going on the road and doing all. And, you know, once you leave, make sure, you know, I mean, I thought for sure I'd be back in the summer, but you think other things popped up and I wasn't able to get back. And next thing you know, I'm in the middle of touring and in all of a career, basically. Right. [00:19:48] Speaker B: And that's, that's essentially when you got your big break. [00:19:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a couple of years later. Yeah. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So when, what, what, you ended up back in Houston right after, during that. Is that the break that you took when I met you? [00:20:01] Speaker A: Now, let's see, when we, when we connected, it would have been around that time. Yeah. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Some kind of studio you were teaching in and something or other? I don't remember, but yeah. Some little practice room you were in. [00:20:12] Speaker A: Yep. It would have been around somewhere around that time, you know, 83, 84, something like that. And, and so at that, when I got back from Berkeley, I was like a jazz snob, you know, I still always had the long hair, but I was like, you know, all about the Jazz stuff, the fusion stuff, the polyrhythms. The more complex, the better. And I didn't waste my time with the rock shit because it was just too elementary for me at this stage kind of thing, you know? And so I had a couple experiences where I was oblivious to, you know, some of the feedback I'd gotten about my playing, but just the idea that, yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't really a hitter. I didn't really play with attitude. I had all. It was all wrists and fingers and forearms and whatnot. So I was playing a jazz club in Houston, and the waitress there had a video. Video camera, which back in 1983 was not an everyday thing. [00:21:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:02] Speaker A: And she was up. She. And she was filming my drum solo. And after the show, she was reviewing, looking at it, and she goes, oh, wow, look at this, man. You're playing so fast. Looks like the tape's sped up, you know. So she showed, you know, the little screen that you look through and all that, and I saw it, and sure enough, it looked cool. Some of those crossovers, you know, I was doing them real fast, and it looked like somebody had to fast forward on the tape machine. But then I watched a little bit more of it, and I just. And that was the first time I saw myself play maybe ever on videotape, you know, and it was just. Everything was light and all that. And then I had. There'd been a couple of other experiences I'd had over the last six months where I'd gotten this feedback about, you know, I didn't have enough attitude, I didn't have enough power. And now I saw what they were talking about. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Even in a jazz club. [00:21:45] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:46] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Super. Yeah, because it was a jazz club, but it was just like. Even like at the height of the drum solo or if we did like a kind of a rock, I could drum Greg's tune or something, you know, Everything was right here, you know, and I just wasn't feeling that, you know, that Terry Bozio, you know, power, but with the sophistication and all that. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:22:05] Speaker A: So I said, so. So that kind of inspired. I said, man, I wonder if I need to go do. Do a couple rock shows or do a rock gig, you know? And that's what led to me getting a road gig, like a club tour thing back in the heyday of club tours. Yeah, the club circuit back in. Just temporarily to, you know, get. Get those. Get that firepower back on purpose. [00:22:24] Speaker B: You're kind of picking up gigs to. To kind of supplement areas in Your playing that you wanted to. [00:22:29] Speaker A: Absolutely. And in this case, it involved letting go of my teaching practice and all the other stuff I was doing in talent to get in a van and go do the circuit. Because back in the day, you'd play a week in this city, a week in that city, a week in another city when clubs were having you five nights a week plus, you know, playing [00:22:45] Speaker B: four sets a night. [00:22:46] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. So I gave myself over to that life. And that's what eventually led to me making the connections to then hear about the Vinnie Events innovation audition in 85, to drive out there and do that, et cetera, you know. [00:22:59] Speaker B: Okay, so that's fascinating and I love that. I'm not surprised by that, but I love that. That you see something in your playing and you. And you pick it up and go find something to supplement that with. That makes a lot of sense because one of the things I thought to mention was that you have an identity as a rock drummer, a great one, but. And everybody gets their little moniker, right? But I still remember the stuff you used to teach too. I can remember some of the actual grooves and everything was, you know, first of all, everything you wrote, you had to pull your hair out to the side and then. And to write it. And I remember thinking how cool that was, man, the guy's got so much hair, you know, he's going to pull it right with one hand and hold his hair off the paper with the other hand. But a lot of it was syncopated, you know, a little syncopated. Funky grooves and everything else. Is there. Is there any part of you that wants to do anything like that? Any kind of outlet? I know you've done some projects through your life and put out tapes and things like that where you've done some of your own stuff. Do you still have a hankering for any of that stuff? [00:24:03] Speaker A: I still. I always have. And there's always been some kind of an outlet. It's just they're lesser known outlets, you know, as soon as you do instrumental rock or fusion or that kind of music now, you're into a very. Speaking of ecosystems, that's its own little small ecosystem. And if you're a drummer fronting your own band, as I have, or out in the road doing drum clinics and all that, then it's just. It's a. It's a. It's a small niche, you know, in the. Throughout the 90s, that's pretty much how I earned a living exclusively. You know, I had an rv, I had a power trio. I would either go out and do clinics by myself, you know, dozens a year, or I would go out and do club tours doing this kind of instrumental rock stuff. I did three or four solo records over that period of time. So I've always had a hand in it. I've always kind of insisted. Well, I say insisted. Always, you know, pleaded or whatever that, that whatever rocking I do. I always get that five minute spot where everybody gets off the stage and I go ape shit and do all, all the, you know, the. Because I grew up with, you know, Tommy Allridge and Ian Pace and of course Buddy Rich and Billy Cobham and all the masters. So I still, you know, love having that little spot to do. Even with. Lead it forward to this very day. She's very cool. I still always get that slot. But, you know, I mean, right now, as we speak, I'm actually working on a new record that's in that same kind of I call funk rock madness and over the top badness, you know, of that kind of music. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:35] Speaker A: And I'm working on a new record, the first solo record I've had in almost three decades, you know. But it's a new project that I'm working on and this whole new drum setup thing and all that so continues, you know. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Yes, it's a saga. And you have to keep us posted, I'm sure. And it will. We'll put socials or whatever you've got mailing lists, all that kind of stuff too, so that people can scope that out. Because I know it is lesser known. It's almost like, hey, I haven't seen this actress and 10 years, I assume she's not acting anymore. [00:26:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:01] Speaker B: Right now she's in New York City on stage. [00:26:03] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:26:04] Speaker B: It's like. [00:26:05] Speaker A: That's a great analogy, you know, like if. If the. If the leader for thing is what the people from my ecosystem know me as the drummer for, then this is like that New York stage play, right? The solo stuff, it's still an outlet, [00:26:18] Speaker B: it's still passion that still. It's just people don't see it, so. But it doesn't mean people wouldn't dig it. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Right? [00:26:24] Speaker B: Right. Point people that way. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Cool. [00:26:26] Speaker B: So talk to me a little bit about how the Vinnie Vincent thing happened. I know you've talked a lot about this, so I don't mean to get super granular, but it is fascinating to hear about your first leap into. Into the big time. Talk a little bit about how that happened and then, you know, maybe in. In the audition details a little bit. [00:26:45] Speaker A: Right? Yeah, it Was. It was quite a. When I look back on it, even to this day, I working on a new memoir right now called Will Drum for Food. And it just kind of covers the 50 year timeline of what I've done as a professional player and the ups and downs and rebirths and redemptions and all that kind of stuff, you know. But my last memoir was all. It's called the Boy Is Going to Rock. And it was all about that experience primarily of those three years of the venue events and invasion during that MTV era, etc. But anyway, I just. I was out on the club circuit. There was another. Another band on the circuit called Sweet Savage and I was friendly with the. Their lead singer and I knew that he had worked with this guy Dana Strum, this bass player out there. And maybe I had heard at that point that he had. I can't remember which. Yeah, I guess maybe I'd heard that Dana was associated with Vinnie Vincent who just left Kiss and they were going to be putting a band together and all that. So I called Joey and he gave me Dana's number. So. So just out of the blue, here's this kid from Texas calling Dana Stroman, leaving a message on his answering machine. Hey, bro. I gave him a detailed message and [00:27:56] Speaker B: all that perfect elevator pitch, I'm sure, right? [00:27:59] Speaker A: Oh, it was priceless, believe me. And he claims that I said that I looked like a cross between Paul Stanley and Rambo, but I can't imagine me actually saying that. I think that was. [00:28:12] Speaker B: It would have been quite accurate at [00:28:14] Speaker A: the time for sure. Right, right, right. So nonetheless, the thing about Dana Strum, he had helped find Randy Rhodes for Ozzy Osbourne. So he was the guy who really scouted talent and knew that it could be an unusual way. So he was like, hey, if the kid wants to drive out here and audition, let's let him. Basically, that was his position. So sure enough, there was quite a delay before they had the auditions. But he just. I was on his radar. He said okay. And he knew I was able to drop the name of. Sweet Savage, by the way, was a band that Dana had produced. So he, you know, that kind of gave me a little bit of an end. Credibility, whatever you want to call it. So that was it, man. And they finally, they had a date. It was October 1, 1985, and they said they could arrange to have a kit there for me or I could just drive my own. So I decided I just want to bring my own gear and all that. So I just packed up the brown Ford Econoline van and. And drove out by myself to Los Angeles. And my old college roommate lived there, close to where the audition was. And that was it, man. And the most bizarre thing about that audition was they told me there was going to be just like a 10 minute screening audition where all these cattle. What we call a cattle call, you know, all these guys come in, set up their drums or whatever, play 10 minutes, and the whole band was there. The singer at the time, Robert Fleischman. Vinnie and Dana were the only three guys in the room. They were just gonna sit there and just watch all these guys come in and play. [00:29:33] Speaker B: Just solo. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Well, solo or play grooves or whatever he was having him do. And we got there, there was like a line of guys with their drum kits there. And my boy was there with me, Tim Young, my good friend from college. So we went in there, set up the drums and all that. And. And this is where. I mean, it really did go down like this. And I just. I set the drums up. He goes, so just like, play a groove, like an AC DC kind of groove. Vinnie told me, you know, if we were playing in an arena somewhere, you know. So I started bashing out a groove and then. Then I kind of started throwing in a little syncopation here and there, you know, and they. They were. They were. They seemed receptive to it, you know. So then shit started getting a little more complex here and there, and they were responding to all that. So then it's 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes now. I'm breaking out the Latin riffs, you know, and they just. They really. I think Dana was probably a little neutral about it. Like, you know, okay, the guy can really play, but this isn't. [00:30:24] Speaker B: This doesn't make sense. [00:30:25] Speaker A: Ever. The pragmatic one, Dana. But Robert and Vinnie were just freaking, you know, they loved all the stuff. 30 minutes, 40 minutes, you know. And then. Then it was just like. It was like a drum clinic kind of thing. And then they kept saying, like, I noticed you can do, you know, this one. I don't think they called it an ostenato, but you do this thing with the right hand. Can you do it with the left hand? You know, like Stump the drummer, you know, Yikes. And I would do. I was able. Whatever they asked for that day, I was able to do, you know, so after an hour, you know, they. They said the punchline was about just before the hour. Mark Vinny says, man, sounds great. So listen, just play a drum solo now, you know, as if we are, you know, and I'm Like, I think myself, what the fuck you think I've been doing for the last hour here? [00:31:06] Speaker B: You know, just played the whole Baby Snakes [00:31:10] Speaker A: Jesus. So I didn't say that, of course, but I think he just wanted to see what I would do with all that. What else you got? Or how that would be condensed into a. A short solo. [00:31:20] Speaker B: Something that applies, I guess, specifically to that gig. Maybe. Maybe, maybe. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Or. Yeah, I guess so. I guess because it had been so all these random things, he just said, well, what would it be like to see the GU do a drum solo at one of our shows or something? [00:31:32] Speaker B: Maybe, you know, we're structured. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Okay. So I, I did that and just let it all out drenched in sweat. I finished and they, they was all sitting on this couch about 15ft in front of the, the, the drums. They. They gave me a standing ovation. Clinger pulled me aside for. He goes, listen, man, unless somebody comes in here with three arms, you got the gig. That's what his thing was, you know? [00:31:55] Speaker B: Love it. [00:31:56] Speaker A: So we opened the door, and what my roommate told me is that the longer I was in there playing, the more guys started leaving. And when we opened the door, there was one guy left. And it looked like he was on his way to, you know, top 40 gig at the Holiday Inn or something. [00:32:10] Speaker B: He. [00:32:10] Speaker A: He just didn't look like he was going to, you know. [00:32:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:13] Speaker A: So I remember even sing, Robert said, stick around, man, this shouldn't take long, you know. But anyway, so it was. That was pretty much how it went down. It was a magical Disney, like, experience and. And got the gig. And, you know, we did start the record a couple of months later and as they say, the rest was history. [00:32:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And recording that record, from a lot of accounts, I find it fascinating that the way the record was made, at least the way that you were required to record, you want to talk a little, you don't have to go into painstaking detail because I know you're very kind in how you describe the process, but it was also like that maddening process that was challenging and maddening at the same time. Right. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:55] Speaker B: Trying to get through it, but you were also naive to anything else. [00:33:00] Speaker A: I didn't know anything any better. I would have done anything I had to do to keep the gig and all that. The long story short was the record was done in a. In an unusual reverse order. Like they had just a standard drum machine as a click track, essentially. And then they cut rhythm guitars first and then bass guitar second to this drum machine. And then the concept for drums Was that I was going to come in and replace the drum machine with real drums, you know. Now, when you do that, of course, I got the click, I got the machine, you know, I would play dead on the machine. But when you listen back without the machine in there, it sounded good, you know, the machine was just a reference for all of us. And it sounded like a live drummer playing nice, tight tracks. And then at some point, right as we almost had one song in the can, Vinnie decided to listen to the drum track with the machine. And anytime he would hear even just a slight flaming, if you will, of the snare. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Millisecond. Flaming. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, that's there. It's like. It's like we have to. Can we fix it? You know? And so we went down the rabbit hole. [00:34:15] Speaker B: And that was a day, too, where fixing it wasn't so easy. [00:34:19] Speaker A: It was risky because you had to punch in and out. And then when. When you would punch me in, you know, okay. At the start of a verse to get the fourth snare, maybe one of the other snares I played would have been slightly, you know. So I got really good about just trying to play as mechanically as possible. And I mean. I mean, look at this. Went on for weeks. I have two chapters in the book about recording those drums. You know, it was agonizing. But the bottom line is, I think in the end, I think Vinnie was kind of torn between. You know, in the mid-80s, this is where you really saw almost all pop music had drum machine stuff. So he loved that metronomical consistency and, you know, that just the sound of a drum machine. But he was also, you know, he's a musician's musician. He loved all the crazy chops, so he wanted all the wild feel fills, but he wanted that particular kind of groove, you know, that very mechanical thing. So in the end, when he thought he was finished and after we spent all this time perfecting the tracks, I mean, it really, to me, just sounded like a machine, you know, with live [00:35:25] Speaker B: film, which means success in his mind, ironically. [00:35:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And then when our manager finally heard it, he goes, this sounds like shit. What happened to your detracts? You sent me that first day or whatever, because, you know, because we still had the. You know, so then they brought me. So meanwhile, I'm going back and forth to Houston, going back out to do the record. So I did the record three complete times. So then they sent me out for. They brought me back out for the third time. Okay, just go back to what we did the first time and I just played the tracks down and we do a few fixes and it was ultimately done relatively new, normal, you know, in the end. [00:35:57] Speaker B: Basically, once your brain was scrambled, it [00:36:00] Speaker A: was PTSD for a long time after that, man. Because it was just, you know, that the red light comes on and I gotta play with the machine, but I gotta groove. But it's got to feel natural. But it can't be all, you know. Right. [00:36:11] Speaker B: And the other guys are playing to that. I mean, it's. And it. Versus now, do you. The bands that you played with after that, without getting into too much detail, did you ever find that recording experience again? Because now that sounds. It sounds like the remote recording that happens today versus the way it actually was during that era where people were all in the same room recording these tunes at the same time. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. These days, especially since COVID I've noticed there's a lot more remote recording opportunities the way digital recording is now. It's convenient. Well, first, no, I've never had even remotely that kind of experience. And ironically, now in modern times, what. What he would. He. Had we been able to use digital. The digital platform back then, he just would have quantized everything. Right. So which. With. Of course, to the listeners who aren't familiar, I mean, in the digital recording mechanism, you have something called a grid. The grid represents the. The vertical metronomical markings of the song. And when you play on top of the grid, you can see where everything lines up with the. The metronome with the markings there. And as soon as you hit the quantize button, everything automatically. Automatically locks in. But like, in my opinion, all the soul goes out the window. Then it just. We all. It all sounds the same. [00:37:30] Speaker B: Dehumanizes. The music. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Dehumanizes. Yes. [00:37:32] Speaker B: Yes, Fascinating. So that was also your first foray into playing big audiences and stuff. And I do have. I do have one. I don't. I've quoted it for many years as a kid, because, you know, being the aspiring rock star, I was at the time too, asking about. I don't know if it was when you were already playing with Nelson or. I don't know what era this was. It had to be early, though, because I haven't seen you forever. [00:37:59] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:38:00] Speaker B: Is how does it feel to get on that stage in front of tens of thousands of people for the first time? And you were like, dude, it's spectacular. And I was just like, f. This is what we're all striving for. This was the dream that you had as a kid. You're just thinking, I want to be on that stage and all these people behind what we're doing and everything. Do you still get that feeling, having so much experience now on. And in all honesty, do you, do you have any or even a recollection of the first few times? [00:38:31] Speaker A: Oh, man, I could tell you that, that, well, the, the, the, the full circle punchline with the Vinnie Vincent gig. Vinnie Vincent gig was that the first tour we did was with Alice Cooper. And of course he was my boyhood [00:38:45] Speaker B: idol or whatever, so I thought he was dead. [00:38:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, he's alive. I thought he died on the amazing. The killer cover. Yeah. So, I mean, we, we did. We start off in first. Night one was Lansing, Michigan at a hockey rink. Night two, I, I could, I still remember these dates and times. This is all late October of 86. It was one year later after I got the gig. Lansing, Michigan, second on Michigan. And then dates three and four were October 30th and 31st. So it coincided with Halloween at the Joe Lewis arena in Detroit, where Alice is from. And this was my third gig with the band, basically, you know, and that was, I mean, it is everything and you know, and there is fear. I mean, yeah, I gotta, I mean, of course you're stoked and you're excited and once you get up there and you're playing and all that, then you kind of relax. You're in it. But man, you know, I was myself before, you know, leading up to those gig. I remember, I remember what it was like to walk down the corridor, to walk up to the, the steps that led up to the stage to do those Joe Lewis arena dates, man. You know, and, and, and the other thing was that, you know, we were heavily into the, the glam stuff, you know, the, that the pink amps and the, you know, Vinnie had all the girly makeup and we all had the makeup, you know, and this was. Alice Cooper wasn't into that shit at the time. He was still doing his normal thing that he was doing. And so we were like, man, we're going to get killed up there. I mean, his audience, are they going to accept us? And fortunately, you know, the, our first video was out. People kind of recognize as a hard rock band that was a little left of center with the glam stuff. Yeah. But you know, when the lights went out, like, you know, you just heard that like, okay, cool, they, they, they're with us, you know. Right. And it was. I, I just, I remember walking up the stairs, it just. Everything about. I could just visualize it in my mind right now. And it. And it really is what we lay in bed at night as. As young teenagers dreaming about, you know, one day I'm gonna. [00:40:38] Speaker B: You know, it's your home running the World Series, man. It's the. [00:40:41] Speaker A: It's that. [00:40:42] Speaker B: It's that musician's version of that dream. [00:40:44] Speaker A: It really is, man. Really. And to this day, it still is full, fresh, you know, for the most part. I mean, obviously, you know. [00:40:51] Speaker B: Yeah, you've had a lot more experience since then. [00:40:52] Speaker A: Decades in, you know, the. The, like that kind of stage fright level nervousness is. But. But I still get like the. It's not fear. It's like that adrenaline, that pre show thing, you know? Yeah. Every time, man. Even if it's at a club or something, you know, it's. It's still. [00:41:09] Speaker B: They say that's your mind telling you that you're about to do something important. [00:41:12] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. [00:41:14] Speaker B: So that you don't freak out on yourself. [00:41:16] Speaker A: But that's. [00:41:17] Speaker B: That's important. You gotta have. So you still have the edge. You even know this thing backwards and forwards. You could stand on your head if you didn't have anything new to do in your solo. You've already done it so many times. You could do the one you did last night. [00:41:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:28] Speaker B: But you still got a little bit of that gut. [00:41:31] Speaker A: Bro. Bro, it's that one thing I can say is, is. It is. I have, you know, man, Rocky III with Clubber lang, you know, Mr. T. Yeah. You remember that? You know that came out. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Of course. Yeah. [00:41:46] Speaker A: That ethos, the guy on his way, you know, on his way up, like before he fought Rocky the first time, you know, he's training by himself. That was so impressionable in my young mind back then when I first saw it. And I've never lost touch with that vibe. And also, conversely, the idea that, you know, Rocky would have lost his edge with all of his success. That's how they painted it, you know, like, of course the motherfucker's at like 4% body fat during the filming. I'm sorry. If he was really that complacent, you know, he would have. Maybe they should have a little bit of a melody. Come on. Yeah. Belly something. But anyway, he was a writer in that. [00:42:26] Speaker B: He was having none of that. He was having none of that. [00:42:30] Speaker A: Right, right. So. But that. That vibe, you know, staying hungry. Yeah, it never left me, man. 62 years old, it's never left me. So to this day, every gig, the pre show processes the warming up the, the rituals, the taking the thing serious, the always, you know, the, the, the, the training after the show, go for the long run after the set, lift weights during the day or vice versa. You know, just all of those things. The, you know, what I eat and when I eat it leading up to, you know, it's just never not been that way, man. [00:43:06] Speaker B: It's a lifestyle, though. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Lifestyle for you. [00:43:09] Speaker B: So did you, do you ever teach habit forming stuff to kids that are coming in and trying to learn this stuff? Because I mean, it's a lot of work for somebody who doesn't understand how that goes. And even your show, your performance is a lot of energy. This is a rock show. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:43:25] Speaker B: You have no problem laying into the tubs now. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:43:28] Speaker B: You did when you were super young. So it's actually a workout during the entire show. [00:43:33] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [00:43:34] Speaker B: So how would you explain to a youngster how to start developing those habits to where it doesn't feel like work even though it is? [00:43:44] Speaker A: Right? You mean the gig or the. [00:43:46] Speaker B: All of it, the prep and the attention to detail and getting warmed up and the workouts and being in perfect shape so that you have more of that confidence going in all of that stuff. [00:43:58] Speaker A: Well, what I tell them is that, you know what I mean, sometimes it does feel like work sometimes because, you know, by engaging resistance, that's when we know we're, we're doing something meaningful, you know, growing. So when you go to the gym, I mean, that's the ultimate metaphor. You know, we go to the gym to specifically engage. We want to feel the resistance. Picking up only the light weights and we're not experiencing much resistance. We're not going to get any kind of benefit from. We're not going to get that micro trauma, you know, and we're essentially wasting our time there. But what I always say is there's, there's two levels of resistance. The resistance we feel to get our asses up off the couch to go to the gym. And then part two is once we get to the gym, the resistance. And that's almost like anything to go practice sometimes. Man, I know I need to get in there and hit him a little bit. Yeah, we still, you know, and then. So that's, you got, you got to sometimes force yourself into it or to sit down and write. You've written, you know, so you understand. I don't really feel like writing, but I'm going to sit down in front of the laptop and start putting some black on the white because that's what it takes, right? And Then once you engage your process, whether it be practicing or whatever it is, then there's a whole other set of resistance that you have to overcome. So that. That's. So I. I guess what I would try to convey is that, you know, that. That you're not always going to feel like it, that you're going to sense some resistance, but that's a sign that, you know, you're. You're doing what so many other people won't do, or, you know. [00:45:28] Speaker B: Discipline. [00:45:28] Speaker A: Yeah, the discipline. Sometimes you need it. Other times, like, I just. I love all those processes, you know? But to your point, it doesn't really feel like work, does it? Somebody asked me at the airport because we're playing a show in town tomorrow night. Yeah, where are you at la? Are you. Is it work or vacation? I go, bro, it's the same thing to me, man. My work is like being on vacation. He goes, okay, sounds good. You know, the TSA guy probably didn't feel that way, but no caprenda. [00:45:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. I mean, it's a rare thing, but it's beautiful. And that's why it's one of the things I admire about you and people should understand. Like I said, this has been a hard, tough road, and the fact that you have such a process, and it's so much of your time and effort, just preparing for each night when you're playing so often is an admirable thing, but it's also nothing that's given to you. So I was curious about your process, and there's a lot about habits, atomic habits. That book is essentially telling you, hey, are you this guy? Are you the type of guy who. Blah, blah, blah. But to get there is a lot more difficult. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Well, you said it's a lifestyle, and what is a lifestyle? It's a series of habits that we do every day. So. So, yeah, that's all. I guess to answer the question briefly here is that I would tell a young person, just start with something that you can do every day, even for practicing. For a young drummer, just give me 15 minutes a day on the pad to work on your hands. Just try to find a time, find a place, get a ritual out of it. Because if you want to do more, you want to do different things with your practice time. That's easy. It's easy to expand on something that you're already doing. Then have to start from scratch and try to get an hour a day or something. Right. It may seem too daunting for a young kid. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:17] Speaker A: Give me 15 minutes. So now he's already know how to do in 15. Of course he could up it to 20 or 30 because he's already, he's, he's adding to or expanding on the pre existing habit that he has. [00:47:27] Speaker B: And you're seeing your own progress. Then you inspire yourself a little bit. [00:47:31] Speaker A: That's right. [00:47:32] Speaker B: And then, and that would be you and your, your. I mean you're a health expert as well. But that seems like that would be a good analogy about people that try all these different diets, fads, whatever to grow, to shrink, whatever it is. But you know, you can't just dive into something and say I'm going to change my habit to the nth degree every single day of my life starting tomorrow. You've got to ease into that stuff. [00:47:56] Speaker A: And that's what organically happens. Like even the evolution of my way of eating and all that, you know, it's just, it was just one decision at a time and acclimating with the new thing I was going to do. And then I just kind of began to build on it and then maybe I was. Then at some point I started doing the superfood smoothie every morning. You know, and then another point I would start add some capsule, I take some superfood capsules with the lunch. So it's just little by little know you're, you wind up where you wind [00:48:23] Speaker B: up, you know, and you look fantastic for 62. It's freaking ridiculous. So you're, you're, you're also still a freak in that regard. So how, what are some. Give me just in the middle of this without completely shifting gears, but still shifting gears completely. What would you tell somebody about. Because you're vegetarian. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Vegan. [00:48:43] Speaker B: Vegan. And have been for a long time, [00:48:45] Speaker A: over 30 years now. [00:48:46] Speaker B: But so talk to the people who want to grow. You say how do you do this without taking in 200 grams of protein every day? [00:48:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:48:57] Speaker B: You know. [00:48:58] Speaker A: Right. I mean just in my opinion, this is just one, you know, one man's opinion here and there's, there's plenty of them out there. You know, I, I just always felt like the protein thing was a little overhyped on two levels. Number one, just the amount of protein that is often recommended and the insistence that it must come from animal products, you know, that, that that somehow plant based protein is inferior to animal protein. Now back in the day, like in 1990s when I really I became vegetarian and that's when I started, you know, when anybody back then, you know, Even in the 93, I went vegan but anytime during the 90s, pretty much if, if, if some, you know, lunkhead at the gym heard that I was, you know, vegetarian or vegan or. Do you get your protein? It was just, it was, it was fighting words kind of like, you know, well, you can't get size, you can't get strength. And meanwhile, I, I, you know, the bottom line is if you're getting enough calories, you know, it's difficult in my opinion, not to get enough protein, you know, so this is what I've always done. I mean, I, on the low end, I might do anywhere from, you know, a, a half a gram of protein per pound of body weight up to maybe. You know, 0 7.8 to get technical about it, you know, but, but even like 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, man, it's just, I've never seen that to be necessary actually manifest. [00:50:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think a lot of that started back in those days too. Oh yeah, you know, with the, everyone trying to get Ronnie Coleman arms or whatever. [00:50:27] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:50:28] Speaker B: Most people don't get a leg the size of Ronnie Coleman's arms, but there was all kinds of stuff happening in and out. So I just found it fascinating that you've managed to, I mean, sustain your health like you have. And I think that's, that's really great. And you have a couple of books out on that stuff too. [00:50:43] Speaker A: I have done a lot of writing on it on health and wellness. In fact, there's one of my early titles that I'm looking to re release. And that's another thing in the, in line, you know. [00:50:53] Speaker B: Good, good. Yeah, you have many years left. [00:50:56] Speaker A: So what are your. [00:50:57] Speaker B: We had left off talking about what you would tell kids and getting into to drumming and stuff like that. Along those lines, what are your thoughts on AI and music? Especially in light of the fact that you were kind of experiencing one of the first AI things back in the, in the day, every 85 or whatever. Right, right when you were having to hit the grid, essentially. Naturally, it's come so far now and you see a lot of youngsters coming up getting frustrated with the thought that, well, this is progressing so fast that by the time I get good, it's going to be something that's outdated. Do you have thoughts on AI in music and then how maybe people should approach being musicians today? [00:51:40] Speaker A: Right. Oh, man, it's tough to say because, I mean, for me in my reality, the kind of shows I play and how I like to play and how I like to record and all that, I Hate to say it's old school, but I mean, it's still about live performance. It's still about the in the moment interaction with fellow musicians on a stage. And that's something that AI that's not really relevant in the AI world. If you go to a show, you want to see the musicians on stage performing, you're there to hear a performance. And for me, even on record, I still want to hear the live drum, so to speak of we're hearing a performance, it's in the studio with mics, obviously being recorded. But I mean, so that's just still so much ingrained in what I enjoy listening to and how I want to play all those kind of things. So, AI, with all this stuff about how songs are being written and all of that, I mean, I don't really know where it's going to go even six months or two years from now, how prevalent it's going to be. We hear all the crazy stories now about how songs and bands. And that's not even a real ban on Spotify and AI, all of that. I just feel like it'll have its place, it'll have its influence. There's probably some cool things it can do to augment what we're already doing on some level. But if the name of the game is, you know, playing live, I just. I don't know that there's going to be any substitute for all that we have to do to become good musicians. You know, starting with going out and doing all those shitty gigs where there's 15 people at the club and, you know, just all of those things, there just isn't really any substitute for that because when you hear somebody playing, you're hearing those years, it becomes part of their artistry. All those bad gigs that we did and all the hardship. [00:53:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that gets missed in the equation too, because. Tell me if you see the same thing. I see lots of kids coming up that are insanely great musicians, and I also see a vast majority of them who just get pissed off and blow it off because of the insane amount of information getting pushed on them. It's almost like you. You know, we used to have to save up our money to buy the next book and then we learned the book and it was. And I'm not saying that's the way to do it, but it makes it a lot more difficult for people to appreciate how much time it takes. I think that's what's getting lost in the equation. So you talked about even before, before you went to Berkeley doing Four and five hours a day. I mean at your, at your maximum, how much, how many hours are you putting in? [00:54:41] Speaker A: Well, the magic number for me was always about six hours a day. That's what I did at Berkeley. But here's the secret, if you will. And I saw another student, this kid named Dave Wood, who is a Berkeley student, who, I saw him doing it. And that is number one, that you tabulate every minute that you practice on a digital watch. So back in the day was a Casio watch. And I knocked on his practice room door one time to ask him something and I saw him hit the watch before. He talked about, I go, what's that? He goes, oh, I time how much I practice, you know. And he was doing six hours a day on his watch. So I tried to do it and I just found that certain days if I had, you know, extra classes or I had, you know, it was almost impossible to get that all in one day. Especially when it's on the watch. You think you practice six hours a day when you time it to the minute you did four and a half or something. It's wild. So my thing was the weekly quota and that has stuck with me on so many different levels, even beyond practicing 40 hours a week. Because now what happens is if you fall short on Monday and get five hours now you got, now you can do seven the next day or on Wednesday or something like that, you know, you can, you can make up for it on the back end or if you, if you're feeling good, you want to get ahead of the curve for the first part of the week, then you have maybe a four hour day waiting for you on Sunday, you know. Yeah. And so that's, so I love the concept of the, of the weekly quota and, and that, and that was again, even these days, six hours is not going to be, not going to happen in my world right now. [00:56:13] Speaker B: And that's why I said that's the beautiful thing about being in that environment where you feel like, man, the first thing you do is itch to get out of there and go, go on the road. Like, dude, you're, you're, you. This is a sweet spot that you'll never get back. [00:56:25] Speaker A: That's right. [00:56:26] Speaker B: And it's also a lot of work. That's why I think I see a lot of musicians missing out. Whether it's music or writing or your health, whatever, everyone's looking for a shorter, quicker way to do it. [00:56:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:37] Speaker B: And, and it's just unappreciable. So I'm glad that you see that there's some hope, but I know we're old school. I just didn't know if you had some kind of forward thinking way to say hey AI's here and, and whatever. But I, I hope to, I hopefully I kind of agree with you that things kind of ebb and flow and people tend to want to experience old ways of doing things just to feel more human. And I hope we stay with the live performance. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Well, and you know, to me the hundred thousand dollar question these days is, you know, what is the end game for that 14 year old kid now? Like we knew what our end game was when we were young teenagers. You know, we wanted to get in a big band, go do the tour. You know, there was just, there was essentially one general path to the waterfall back then. You know, usually involved a record deal, touring, being on tv, being on the radio, you know, just having records in the stores. I mean there wasn't, you had variations of that I suppose, but that was if you're going to be a live performer or if you want to be a quote unquote rock star, that's what you did. So these days I still like, I really don't know what the average 14 year old kid, what I guess their end game. Wow, I want to have a million followers on Instagram. Or is that like, is that, you know, like I don't, Is that the end game? Is that, you know. Yeah, maybe, maybe they never leave the room. They don't really go out and play shows because they're doing the clips and they're doing some crazy shit. But so I guess that that's what, you know, it always goes down to intentionality, like what is it that you're wanting to achieve? So how I can assist that, I guess if you, I don't, I don't know how that would even tie in. I want to, you know, have a huge catalog of songs. I'm going to get AI to help me write them. Okay, well what are you going to do with the song? Yeah, so I guess it would really get down to what the musician wants [00:58:23] Speaker B: to do and maybe you get creative with that. I mean. [00:58:25] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:58:25] Speaker B: You wouldn't have to travel and do your clinics with a power trio. You could bring a recording of AI and you were the drummer. [00:58:33] Speaker A: Right. And they're jamming with. I mean you could. I guess. So, yeah. [00:58:36] Speaker B: It's interesting this to see where it's going to go, but hopefully, hopefully we stay with some live. I also heard recently Beato even bringing up whether or not Rock is. Is on a resurgence. Do you. Do you have any inclination? Obviously, you've been in that game for so long, you see it, you live it. But you must have noticed when it phases out and other things come in and hip hop becomes the big thing now hip hop's out. Do you see any kind of resurgence in rock music or anything that you listen to that gives you that indication? [00:59:06] Speaker A: Well, I. I think a lot of it, speaking from what we would call as the hair metal era, for that's. From that, you know, 80s into the 90s, from that, the golden age of MTV and all that, you know, I mean, it's stronger than ever right now, since the heyday. As far as what we're seeing on the road, how the people that are coming to the shows, people are bringing their kids, their grandkids. You know, there's a younger generation who. Certain people who like, you know, like those bands. Yeah. [00:59:39] Speaker B: Bringing the youngsters to it, got some [00:59:41] Speaker A: youngsters into it as well. So from that perspective, it's alive and well. And these people want to come out to a show. They want to see that, see the live band. And so I don't see that going away anytime soon. Now. What you're having now is a lot of us are getting older now, especially the vocalists and drummers with shoulder issues and all these kind of things. So age is going to. Father time is going to dictate a lot of how long this can go on, you know. But anyway, so. But as far as. I mean, I don't know, man. It's all out there. You know, it's the thing about the Internet and all these streaming platforms and social media and all that is, you know, there's a lot of bands that you and I have never heard of who are out there doing all different kinds of stuff. Stuff from retro style hard rock to progressive stuff and all that. And they are out there gigging regularly, they're making records regularly, they're playing decent venues. I've never heard of them. And they are making a living with a following out there doing it. Yeah, and that's the unique thing now about all the different pockets of interest out there and different kinds of bands, different kinds of audiences, shit I've never even heard of before. This is a thing. Oh, yeah, man. They just played the Wilton Theater. What. So it's. [01:00:57] Speaker B: That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's. That's what happened when. When radio kind of dissolved and it turned into. Exactly streaming music. But I think that's great too. I couldn't I couldn't tell either. But do you still listen to new music at all? [01:01:15] Speaker A: I try, man. I, I, I make my best effort to see what's going on, hear what's going on, hear what the new drummers are doing. All that. It's, and I hate to say this is just as like a broad statement about all of it, but, you know, so much of what we call just modern rock, you know, listen, there's, I get it, man. You know, you have quantized drum tracks against quantized guitars. You get this wall of sound thing. You got the drums that were recorded in the studio that are now sampled with these incredible, you know, they're triggering these, you know, cannon shot, snare drums and all of that. And when you listen to, like, the sonic, you know, scope of what you're hearing is, you know, immense. And it's impressive. And I, and it's the sound and I get it, you know, and yet through my filter, through my ears, when I hear it, like, I don't, I don't get that there's a drummer in a room playing. Like, I start thinking, did they program it and then just fire off these triggers or did the guy play top to bottom and, and they just cut it all together and then quantized everything, like. So I guess what I, what I'm missing from a lot of it is the sense that I'm listening to a performance, right? Even a rhythm guitar performance. I'm not getting the sense that they're, you know, because listen, you can have guys that record it at different times, but if they're, if they're tracking, if they're playing the song down, even if you take a verse from this pass and the bridge from this pass and all that, you're still getting chunks of live playing put together. You sound like a band in the same room. [01:02:48] Speaker B: That happened before too, right? [01:02:50] Speaker A: Of course. Definitely, man. So, so that's, that's like one of the, the most. I don't say distressing things because it doesn't really affect my life, you know, but, but that, that's the one thing about listening to a lot of the, the modern music where that, that I miss, I guess, is that it's hard to identify. You know. In fact, on the occasion I go, this, this is a live drummer right now. This is a guy in a studio playing the drug down. Cool. It's like refreshing, you know? Yeah. So. But I do try to keep up with it and hear what's going on and whatnot, but just my own personal bias and taste is That I would always prefer to, you know, know that a guy's in there playing, you know. Yeah. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Did you put it in. Do you listen to music? Or are you one of those guys that listens to talk a lot or whatever at this point? [01:03:33] Speaker A: I listen all the time to everything, man. I got, you know, I got audiobooks, I got podcasts. I got all different kinds of music. I'm a streamer, so I still love Spotify. I mean, I, I. [01:03:44] Speaker B: Okay, so all of the above. [01:03:46] Speaker A: All the above, yeah. Yeah. [01:03:47] Speaker B: That's interesting. You know, a lot of guys that even active musicians are putting music down, and I found myself doing it too, you know, because you get frustrated trying to comb through all the stuff that you don't like, and you've. Eventually you're like, I'm gonna find a podcast. [01:04:02] Speaker A: Right, Right. [01:04:02] Speaker B: It's kind of depressing. [01:04:03] Speaker A: Or you can create. You. I'll create playlists. Or you. Now, I just. I got. I got my digital library, man. All the old John Coltrane records and all that. I mean, you can. Just because it's digital format technology, we can go back and get all those classic records and. Yeah, so I got a pretty wide, Wide variety of stuff I listen to. [01:04:19] Speaker B: That's beautiful. All right, so you being a. The multifaceted cat, you know, how do you. How do you view yourself? How do you identify yourself when you, you have experience as a writer, as a. As a health and wellness expert, and obviously, first and foremost as a drummer. Do you. Even within the drummer thing, you know, you hear people like Stu Copeland, who's widely acknowledged. It's great. Talk about the way he approaches music, but he approaches it as a drummer, not as playing the song. And you always seem to, regardless of how well you could play crazy chops you play to the song. How do you, how do you identify with. With that? And do you think that modern musicians are moving away from playing music versus playing their instrument? [01:05:09] Speaker A: Yeah, It's a. It's a great question, because I really don't know the intention behind, like, you know, the world of drummers and drumming. And again, I always bring up the Instagram thing because there is just, you know, endless amounts of snippets of chops and different things. Somebody's in their bedroom or their practice room, like that recording. They got all the mics and all that, and it, it's, you know, and of course, as a drummer, you know, I love listening to all that crazy stuff. [01:05:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:44] Speaker A: However, it's. It's kind of out of. There's no context with It. It's just riffs, riffs, riffs, riffs, riffs. And you could almost, I guess, develop a following and be like a drumming influencer or whatever, just from what you do on social media, outside of anything you do with a band. And I guess the market is such where, you know, don't forget, we're listening. We're being entertained in a very different way than we ever were before. It's just snippets now. It's three seconds here, five seconds there. Scroll, scroll, scroll. So that's very different than going down to the Cactus Records and coming home with some vinyl and putting it on the turntable and putting the kneel down on song one and listening to the entire first side, then flipping the record over, you know? You know what I mean? Like, that kind of thing would be unheard of now, you know, so we're. We're being entertained in a different way in this digital age, you know, So I suppose if somebody wanted just to be a drummer and talk drumming and chops and technique without ever really having much context in the band, and I guess they could be drummers, right in that. [01:06:45] Speaker B: Do you approach music when you guys are writing new stuff? [01:06:48] Speaker A: Do you. [01:06:49] Speaker B: How do you approach it? Because obviously you are a drummer or if you were a guitar player. Guitar player. So everybody has their perspective where they're coming in with, but in terms of just having a frame of how do I serve the song? Is that. Is that your approach? [01:07:03] Speaker A: It's gotta be, man. As soon as you get in a room with other musicians, that has to be. And so my identity in that context, throughout my whole career has been like, I want to be, you know, the drumming assassin for hire. You know, they bring me in because I can up level. I. I can bring something special to their song. Their song. They wrote the song, I didn't. Somebody else is producing the record. I'm not. So I. You have to think that way. It's a collaboration, and my role in that is to lay down a groove, a foundation, and sort of frame the painting, basically, you know, and so that. That's the. That's the approach I take. I. You know, now the. The. The thing I like about the drum solo is that's kind of the moment when, again, everybody leaves the stage and I have a chance just to express, you know, all of the madness that I also love so much, you know, so. But it's compartmentalized, you know, it's like, okay, cool. This is the part of the show where the drummer goes apeshit. I'm happy to oblige. But then when you guys come back on now we're back to the Assassin for Hire. Who's going to do. Who's going to play the heavy groove and make the song sound good? Good. [01:08:15] Speaker B: Great way to look at it. Yeah, that. That sounds good. So you've had a lot of changes in your life and more recently you've had a baby come in your life. So I know how much perspective that has to change because I've. I have a sing. A kid also. But do you mind going into the story about your first pregnancy way back? Do you mind talking about that? Are you able to talk about the 93 scenario? [01:08:46] Speaker A: Sure. I'm finally now, you know, 30 some years later writing about it. So there's a whole section in the book where I address that because I'm addressing that period of my life and all that, you know. Sure. Just as far as like the. The back story. [01:09:04] Speaker B: Yeah, just. Yeah, just the, the backstory and I mean, I think. I think understanding what happened and how you handled it are significant things to look at and learn from. [01:09:16] Speaker A: Okay. Well, I was living in the Reseda area teaching drum lessons. It was with Nelson at the time. And a student called to say that she wanted to take lessons because she was. She was kind of a part time drummer but was going to be doing some track dates. She was a singer and a songwriter. Actually had a record deal at the time with like an all female band, but needed to work on her drumming chops. So she came out for a lesson. And that is when I met or how I met Sherry Foreman. And it was just one of those sort of destined, you know, the rare, you know, merging of spirits, if you will, you know. And so I think at the time she was just getting over relationship and I was just about to go out and record the new Nelson record out of town. But the bottom line is, once I got back to la, we were just on a karmic collision course, man. You know, just the relationship moved quickly. I don't think her or I were really looking for a relationship, but it's just everything. The relationship developed very quickly. So, you know, just several months later, you know, she goes home to Houston with me for Christmas. And you gotta understand, like, I've been like the notorious Bachelor guy. So anybody who knew me was like going like, what the hell's going on? He brought a girl home for Christmas to Houston. What? You know, it was that kind of thing, you know. [01:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:46] Speaker A: January boys growing up. Yeah, exactly, you know, so then we move in Together in January because just. It was kind of circumstantial, but, you know, so just everything was just flying faster than we could imagine. And then in late January of 93, we found out she was pregnant. That was also something that we hadn't counted on, you know, then and always, to be honest, I never consider myself a kid person. I never had a desire to be a father, you know, but as soon as that happened, of course, now you have to, you know, get your head together and gear up and whatnot, you know. So it was. It was a chaotic time. Bottom line was we. We had to move out of the place we were at. So we wound up moving in temporarily with the. The Nelson brothers in Toluca Lake, you know, okay. And we were just kind of managing. We were working on the new Nelson record, was taking a while. They were trying to get some mixes done, et cetera, et cetera. And it was just. It was. It was a difficult time financially and logistically. But plus, we had a kid on the way and all that. And then just, you know, in the middle of it all, on one evening, March 30, 1993, we both left the house about quarter to nine. We had some errands run. We were going to meet back at the house. I went to my practice room, I went to the gym. Got back home around midnight, and she wasn't home yet, you know, and so I was just. Back then, pre cell phone, you just kind of had to wait. And then 30 minutes later, I noticed there was a blinking answering machine in our bedroom. So I hit the button, and it was somebody calling from Northridge Hospital. And for me to call him back. I did get somebody on the phone. And after they kind of confirmed who I was and all that, I said, what's going on? What happened? Is she okay? And she said, well, Sherry was stabbed in the abdomen and she's in surgery right now. I'm like, what the hell? And so I just got in the car, rolled down there. By the time I got there, the detectives were there. Apparently what had happened is she had went to that. I don't know if it was a. Was it a. I don't know if it was bank of America or what it was at the time on the corner of Woodman and Riverside here in la, I think. I'm saying. I think. I think that was the spot. Are those parallel? Anyway, I'm zoning on our intersection. But the bottom line is she's at the ATM and we don't really know what happened. She's pulling 40 bucks out of there, the guy tried to rob her. We don't know if she resisted, but it was a single knife wound in the belly, and she was able to kind of crawl out to the sidewalk. Somebody saw her ambulance, and there we were. And over the course of the next 24 hours, I just stayed at the hospital. Friends and family were coming and going. They weren't able to contain the bleeding, essentially, so they took her in for a second surgery about 24 hours after the fact, and she didn't make it through that one. So, you know, it was. What do you say, man? It was my baby boy. It was her. It was. It was a tremendous loss under these violent circumstances. They caught the guy a week later. It turned out he was like a career criminal kind of guy who had just been paroled maybe six months earlier. You know, somebody just wasn't ever able to get his life together. He eventually got, like, a life without parole situation in lieu of maybe getting the death penalty. I guess we all, the family agreed, yeah, whatever. Just keep him in jail, you know. Yeah. But it was. That was quite a journey, obviously, you know, to navigate, you know, to. On the one hand, I think from all my years in rehab and all of the books and the spiritual evolution, I think I was. I think I knew that one of my main jobs was about forgiveness. You know, I couldn't carry around hatred for the guy, rage towards the guy, so I knew I needed to get there quickly, or I thought I needed to get there quickly in terms of trying to forgive the guy, let it go, move on and all of that. But the big lesson for the first couple of years, there was also, you know, honoring your rage and being able to express and let. Let that have its voice, if you will, you know, and that was. That was maybe a little bit of a misstep. You know, I had a few years later go back and deal with, you know, a lot of the residual that [01:15:27] Speaker B: you had suppressed, you mean? [01:15:28] Speaker A: Yes, Yeah. A lot of the suppression of the rage and whatnot. You know, I didn't really know I was doing it. I thought I was. You know, I was doing the. It was the Gandhi way, you know. [01:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the high road. It was a high road saying that. I mean, it was even you being quoted as saying that. That you wanted people to forgive and can't chase hate with hate. I mean. [01:15:50] Speaker A: Yes, yes, dude. [01:15:51] Speaker B: It's remarkable. At the time, I could see you saying this now, but at the time, you're still standing up and doing that. I could see how that would be swallowing anger as well. But what a mature thing to say at such a young age under the circumstances. It's remarkable. [01:16:09] Speaker A: Well, and, you know, it was a surreal moment, the way that all came together. You know, they. They had caught the guy the night, on a particular night, they called me and told me, they said, we're gonna have a press conference the next day on site at the bank, you know, because it was all over the news, a big thing all over the papers, the news and all that. So when they, when they called to remind me, they go, you don't have to go. We just want, you know, we're gonna do it at three o' clock today, et cetera. And at first I said, ah, okay, cool, thank you. I said, I don't really feel like I need to be there. You know, I had a friend of mine was over the house. I go, you know what, man? Let's go. So we hopped in his truck and he took me over there. And we pulled up to the scene and it was already underway and they had all the cluster of microphones and the. One of the detectives was there talking about how they apprehended the guy, whatnot. So I just kind of got out of the truck and started walking towards the cluster of mics. It turns out just as he was finishing up his comments, so as I was walking, just get a little bit closer, they all kind of stepped back and just gave a natural inroad for me to come up there and I guess, talk. They didn't say I was going to, it just happened. And when I got up in front of the mics, that's just what came out of me. I thanked the police department for what they did and I said, listen, as you mentioned, I said Sherry was all about love and light and I don't think she would want us to approach this guy. I think I said at the time, with the lynch mob mentality, right. I think forgiveness would be the best representation of her spirit, et cetera, et cetera. So I meant what I said. And the way it came down, I can't argue that it was the right thing to say at the right time. However, it didn't mean that my work was done. It didn't mean that I had forgiven the guy, you know, one week later, you know, Right. And because, man, when I knew they had him in custody, man, you know, I would just have like these fantasies, honestly, my own thoughts of maybe I could go down to the, to the police station, just kind of hang out inconspicuously and Wait till they transfer them from one cell to another and then just kind of out of the shadows, jump and just get my hand around this motherfucker's throat, man, and just. This is pre taser. So, yep, they had the billy club, you know, I'll let them just club me unconscious. And as I just, you know, crush this guy's win, I literally. And I go, no, no, no, no, that's not the way. No, we have, you know, so I just. But the truth is I should have just played that out in my mind and said, look at, this is where I'm at. This is. I gotta, you know, I'm not gonna take action on it, but I'm gonna. [01:18:33] Speaker B: Well, and that again, that, that defines you versus the criminal who will take action on that. [01:18:39] Speaker A: Right? [01:18:39] Speaker B: I mean, that's just, that's just your, your personality. But still, has it changed your view of the justice system at all? I mean, you've watched a lot. I mean, hell, this is 1993, right? You're talking about Rodney King times and all that, right? So this is a rough time in LA already. [01:18:56] Speaker A: And speaking of which, it was, it was days before the second Rodney King verdict was going to be announced, so a friend of mine kind of encouraged me, says, listen, if you get a chance, you know, to any, Anything you say publicly that promotes peace could be a good time for the city to hear it. Not that what I would say would for, you know, but it, but that was in my, in my consciousness at the time, you know. But listen, man, lapd, man, they took the shit personally, man. We went home around midnight. We left the hospital, came back, the lead Detective called at 7:00am the next morning. Bobby, we need to come by and look at. Because they had no idea. They wanted to go look at some of her personal effects to see if they're looking for anything. I go, it's seven o' clock in the fucking morning. He goes, yes, sir, we need to begin to be. So they were like, you know, and they, you know, crazy. They had, they used like a camera from across the street, you know, they, they did some incredible police work to find the guy, you know. So, yeah, kudos there, you know. [01:20:01] Speaker B: Great. Well, it's an admirable thing and then, and then recognizing what you actually needed over long term too. So you, and you resume touring and everything else. Just trying to get it out of your mind, I assume it just how did you resume life as normal after that? [01:20:17] Speaker A: And, well, I'll tell you, for the first six weeks, I didn't resume much of it. I didn't have anything on the calendar until I had one lone drum clinic in Dayton, Ohio. That was about six weeks later. And at that point, like, I, I. You just don't really want to, like, I didn't really care about playing anymore. I was just surviving day by day and I could have easily blown that date out. I said, man, if I don't go do this, I'm looking at the abyss of the next number of weeks or months. I go, I better go and play. So I did and practiced a little bit before to get the rust off. I went and played it and everything went okay. And that kind of, that was a good thing to do. The turning point, drumming wise, was I got a fax from Terry Bozio, a personal letter. Very sweet. Sorry to fax you. This is the only number I had on you. Blah, blah, blah. Give me a call if you need to talk sometimes. This kind of thing, you know, and this is like my hero, guys, you know. [01:21:15] Speaker B: Wow. [01:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah, so I called him, we had a great conversation. It turned out he lived a couple miles away. So he invited me over and he really, he and his wife at the time, super sweet, supportive, and as a not so insignificant aside here, this was when he was just getting into a lot of the solo drumming performances he was doing. He was doing those, he had that video series, but he was doing like, show, like he played the palace as a headliner, doing the solo drum thing right around that time. And when I saw that shit, man, and all those pedals, like I may had probably had four or five max, you know, he had like nine or 10, you know. [01:21:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a crazy major Octopus Octopussian. [01:21:57] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. And so it was inspiring. And not that I wanted to cop what he did or rip his thing off, but it was just that, okay, I. This could influence what I do. What if I added an extra, you know, and, and that was a huge impetus for me creatively to get back into the practice room, you know, break. You know, I ordered two, two more kick drums, you know, from Sonar at the time, you know, for the, you know, out. I had my regular tooth and I had two, you know, so it was like a dw. They gave me the custom pedals I needed for Terry, you know, but that was, it was important thing at the time. Next thing you know, I'm back on the road again that summer, you know, doing another clinic tour with the band. I mean, it was so, it was a good impetus. [01:22:37] Speaker B: Another way to kind of refocus that energy again. Yes, energy might have been coming from somewhere different this time. [01:22:43] Speaker A: That's right, man. Yeah. [01:22:45] Speaker B: So thank you for sharing that, by the way. I appreciate that. It's got to be. [01:22:48] Speaker A: Gotta be rough. [01:22:50] Speaker B: That story is incredible. But on the lighter side, I also know how bringing in a new life as you have recently changes your perspective. I'd love to know kind of what that has done for you and the way you view things, whether it's the world or your relationship with your girlfriend or your playing whatever. How has it changed you? [01:23:17] Speaker A: Oh, man, it's because you have. [01:23:20] Speaker B: Just so they know, we have a. Is he two? [01:23:23] Speaker A: He's three. Three and a half. Almost three and a half. [01:23:26] Speaker B: Okay, three and a half. So you have three and a half year old. Okay. [01:23:29] Speaker A: And, you know, I should just preface this by saying that, you know, my partner and I, we've been together several years at this point and, you know, had no intention of being parents here. Again, I'm not a kid person. I never had it in any of my goals list to be a father one day. I just want to make that very clear, you know, and she felt the same way and everything was cool and we had a great relationship and all of that. And we just went to Italy for 10 days and perhaps got a little carried away with the ambiance there or whatever, and came home with an embryo, basically. So it was unexpected. [01:24:12] Speaker B: Smuggled one out. [01:24:13] Speaker A: Yeah. But I'll tell you, man, from the moment the way she told me, she. She. She. She thought I was going to freak. So she was like, okay, listen, come over. Okay, listen. And she, she took me into the bathroom and she. And she pointed to the wash basin where there were three positive tests, you know, and as soon as I put it together, like, something clicked. Like, wow. Like, I didn't, I didn't. From that moment, something shifted in my head and said, okay, I guess I'm going to be a dad, I guess, you know? And so I can't explain it. It just. There was no adjustment period. I had no anxiety, had concerns about, you know, you want to be the good dad. Of course. Yeah. Those kind of things. But. And then, man, when we saw that ultrasound for the first time and you, you know, put it together, man, like, wow, man, that little tadpole right there, you know? Yeah. So anyway, it has just been an unbelievable journey. I've heard all my life that you know, when it's your kid, Because I'd ask my sister, who has five kids, and I'm the uncle and the godfather to every one of them, how do you deal with this, man, this running around the house and the screaming. She says, well, when they're your kids, it's different. That's what y'. All. That's what everybody always told me. No, when you're your kids. And sure enough, man, when it's your kid, it's just a whole. It's just. It's. It's a. It's an experience of unconditional love that I don't know how else exactly you get it besides parent from parenting. I think most parents probably understand, and those who aren't, probably don't. Like I never did, you know? [01:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:52] Speaker A: So. But to answer your question, man, it's just. It's a. I mean, I knew going in it was going to be important for me to be a present dad and to have involvement, but I also knew that I had to. That I couldn't slack off, you know, that it was going to be important for me to continue to do all the things I had always done, because I think the kid needs to see the work ethic and what dad's passionate about, what he does for a living, and he goes out of town to play, but then he comes back and, [01:26:18] Speaker B: you know, it's a damn good thing. You're in great shape. [01:26:21] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [01:26:22] Speaker B: Just saying. A lot of guys in their 60s be like, well, I'm almost done. It's a little bit late. [01:26:27] Speaker A: Oh, man. I felt like, you know, I'm a, you know, an old man's mind and a young man's body and that. That's a good A for me in my journey. It's a good time to be a dad, even the first time, you know, so. But, you know, you see everything differently, you know, like, all. I think the important things, like, you know, staying true to your craft, your creative journey, doing a good job, all those things, you know, if anything intensify, because now you got a youngster looking at you, you got a youngster to support. You have, you know, all those extra motivating factors. But some of the extra stuff that you may have gotten preoccupied with or what have you don't really matter much anymore, you know, and there's the perspective, you know, in the scope of this little man. And, you know, my girl and I, my partner, Corey and I, you know, are. We have an incredible relationship, man. We're. We're very fortunate in that sense as well. So I got, like, a family now, man, so. And two cats. So, you know, it's like. And so, you know, when you're. When I'm at Home in that environment, like nothing on the outside is really that important, so long as everybody's healthy and everything's going cool there, you know. So that's, that's a different thing, man, because I lived in the epicenter of my work my whole life, you know, so if work was off now, I was scrambling, you know. Yeah. So I think it's stabilizing on a certain level, it's motivating on other levels, and it's just a whole nother dimension of evolution, personal evolution. Other thing I'll say, man, is, you know, someone who's, you know, tries to be the Zen man. And by meditation practice and all those things, you know, I mean, I get what monks do with the hours of meditation and all that, but parenting, man, you talk about trying to keep your shit together and keep your cool and all that. I don't think any. And the inherent sleep deprivation that can be involved with parenting too, where this motherfucker's getting up at 6:30am whether I'm ready for him to or not. [01:28:25] Speaker B: Right. And then you're expected to perform and then we're playing Hot Wheels sans emotion. You must respond to something negative with no emotion, man. [01:28:34] Speaker A: It's like nothing like you would do it. I would imagine so. It's even for those, you know, the Zen chops of being able to, you know, be be aware of your emotion and all of that. It's. [01:28:47] Speaker B: It's hang on somebody else's timeline now. [01:28:49] Speaker A: Oh, man. Every. Every day, you know. [01:28:52] Speaker B: So I've heard you mention the year of softie. I'm a softy too, but, But I've had certain experiences in my life that kind of made me one. I'm. I've always been sort of a softy compared to, you know, the most machismo written dudes, I guess. [01:29:05] Speaker A: Right. [01:29:05] Speaker B: But there were certain instances that happened during my life that have made me like extra soft. I'm like, good lord, you know, that I spent, I spent the vast majority of my life just not crying since I was a kid or whatever. And then certain instances, certain things happen to you that change that perspective. Do you think any of those experiences that you've discussed have contributed to that? Or have you always been a softie or you still consider yourself to soft? [01:29:28] Speaker A: Oh yeah, I'm soft as hell, bro, in that way, man. And I, you know, I think since the 1993 thing, man, that was the. I could essentially honestly just cry on command, you know, and for the simplest things. And that's never left me, you know, and Then with my, with my boy, man, like with his. His first, you know, month or so, man, like every day, you know, just looking at him, man, every. I have a little bit of a breakdown every day, you know, just the joy and the wonder of it all and all those things. So. And so. I don't know. I don't know what, you know, I. I link it directly back to that, you know, to the. To the horrible thing that happened in 93. I don't know if that did something. Open something up. Yeah. I'm not sure what, but, man. Yeah, I. You know, the joke around our house is I'm way quicker to get watery eyed about something than my girl Kari would ever be, you know. Not to say that she wouldn't, but. Yeah. I'm just saying. Yeah. I'm the one that she's got to get the tissue for, not the other way around. [01:30:33] Speaker B: You know, there's nothing wrong with it at all. And I could see where that could be something that shifted your. Again, it shifts your perspective. [01:30:40] Speaker A: Yes. [01:30:41] Speaker B: And it makes you recognize more intensely what's important. [01:30:44] Speaker A: Yes. [01:30:44] Speaker B: Both the negative experiences and the positive experiences. [01:30:47] Speaker A: Yes. [01:30:48] Speaker B: So now you're a double soft. You're so screwed now. [01:30:52] Speaker A: Both of them. One remarkable thing that I talk about in the book, I just wanted to mention quickly about that is the day. Because I checked my old journal entries on this one. The day we found out that Sherry was pregnant was January 25, 1993. The day we brought our kid home from the hospital was exactly 30 years later to the day. January 25, 2023. [01:31:21] Speaker B: Wow. [01:31:22] Speaker A: To the day, man. Like what? [01:31:24] Speaker B: You know, the universe is squared off. [01:31:27] Speaker A: It is there, you know, I don't think anybody could say that was a [01:31:31] Speaker B: coincidence, man, that, you know, man, that's so beautiful though. Do you have any charities or any kind of things? I mean, you've involved in so many different things between being a vegan and a musician and cats and whatever, all this. Do you have any charities or anything that you support along the way? Yeah, passions for stuff. [01:31:51] Speaker A: I have. I've leaned into the animal situation on different levels. There's a farm animal sanctuary here in LA that I was actively involved with for a number of years. And cat rescues are also a big thing. Feral cat communities, that kind of thing. In fact, one of the remaining ferals from 2008, right around the corner here in the third encore parking lot, we had a family of ferals there, and one of them just would not die. She outlived all the other ones. She is with us right now, indoors, 19 years old. Wow. So it's. It's pretty wild, man. [01:32:35] Speaker B: She got some parents that spoil the hell. [01:32:38] Speaker A: Oh, man, you know, that's right. You know. Yeah. [01:32:41] Speaker B: I love it. So what are you, what are you up to now? Do you have anything that you want to announce or anything? You've already announced a couple of things. You got another book coming out. You got another record coming out. Anything else? [01:32:51] Speaker A: So. Well, you know, the, the. The lead afford Freight Train continues, man. We're playing regularly throughout the summer. And so that, that's just. That's an ongoing thing year round. Planning in town tomorrow night, of course, and then just, you know, throughout the summer so forth. It's 13 years now. I've been over 13 years I've been doing the gig. So it's a. It's a lot of fun. The big project right now is. Is the new book. It's called Will Drum for Food. And it's a, you know, again, the 50 year, you know, the rise, fall and rebirth kind of thing, of all the different experiences of a long career playing drums. And the record I'm doing is a soundtrack for the book, essentially. So it's also called We'll Drum for Food, but it's just. It's a collection of songs that kind of inspired the story, or I should say the story inspired the music, so to speak. And a lot of it is just sort of, you know, remakes of a lot of the particular tunes. Like there's a instrumental version of an Alice Cooper tune from the Killer album, for example. You know, everything has some kind of relevance to it. So something a little different. I mean, if you move. If a movie can have a soundtrack, why can't a book have a soundtrack? [01:33:57] Speaker B: It's a great idea. [01:33:58] Speaker A: So that's what we're up to right now, you know. Absolutely. [01:34:01] Speaker B: Love it. And then where do people catch you and keep up with all that stuff? [01:34:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the best thing is, you know, probably bobbyrock.com at the website or they can sign up there for a newsletter, which I hope to get back to here shortly, or just, you know, I'll do, you know, Instagram, Facebook, some of the social stuff, you know, keep announcements there. For the most part, I'm. I'm not the most consistent, you know, especially if I'm distracted with other things. But I try to try to get [01:34:25] Speaker B: back to it and a few things going on. Yeah, but I mean, that's just for people. So the website's probably it. If you had a new book, it would show up there if you had [01:34:33] Speaker A: a new tour, all that stuff. I've been really consistent with the newsletter in the past. I hope to get back to it shortly, especially after I get this. You know, when you. When you hand a book over to an editor, you know, you. You still got a lot of work to do, but you do have. It opens up some time, you know, so. [01:34:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. Oh, man, it's been an honor to [01:34:52] Speaker A: have you back, brother. [01:34:53] Speaker B: And I hadn't seen you in so long. So if nothing else, just getting a chance to catch up, let alone ask a bunch of nosy questions. [01:35:02] Speaker A: It's been great, brother. Great, man. [01:35:04] Speaker B: Thank you, brother. [01:35:04] Speaker A: Right on, my man. [01:35:08] Speaker B: What's it take? What you gonna do what you're gonna do Success around the sandbox the second grade rules A confident fake to make you do make you do what they want when they won't pay the fool A diplomatic base is the one to see it through don't let those bigots take you off your game or just let him lose Sit here in the front seat, baby, ain't that sweet? Dig a little honey from the money be but don't pay the fool an a political magical potion A missing beast at the end of the game A slow roll See the truth in soul motion I never found a 60 frames like.