The Lie About “Making It” | Touring with Timberlake to Movies

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I mean, you have to work hard because everyone's talented. But after that, I mean, it's timing, it's luck. It's also taking advantage of every opportunity that you hear about. For instance, there were auditions that I was not invited to because only the dancers from that agency are going to go audition for this choreographer. Well, I heard about it. It was for Paula Abdul for the movie American Beauty, and I was like, oh, I'm going to. I'm just going to go. [00:00:23] Speaker B: You just showed up on invited. [00:00:24] Speaker A: I just went, and I got the job. [00:00:26] Speaker B: When did you feel like you had a breakout moment? [00:00:28] Speaker A: So I'm not invited to this audition. So I go. I get kept. We have to come back the next day for callbacks. So I'm nervous. And so they keep partnering people up with different partners because it's swing dance. So he comes over to me, and he's bringing me out, and I'm like, My face is like. And he goes, smile, honey, so we can get this job. And I was like, okay, you know, and I put a smile on my face, and we got the job. Tina hired, I don't know, 20 girls to be in her video for Come On Over. We learn the choreography, and Christina comes in to learn it and do it with us. And she's a powerful singer, and I could just tell that she was not comfortable around all of these girls who were just kind of, like, happy and dancing and confident and sexy and. And here comes Christina, and she's quiet and also unapproachable in her way. And I. What I saw in her was insecurity. So when we were done rehearsing, I went up to her and I was like, I just want you to know you're doing a great job. Like, your dancing is great. She was like, oh. And her face changed. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. So then a couple months later, you know, she's getting more and more famous. She wants to add girls to her tour that's already on tour. So I get asked. [00:01:42] Speaker C: Well, it's the land of the brilliant, home of the brave. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Say. My next guest will discuss keys to success in the entertainment industry. Everything from hustle to focus to ingenuity. She'll probably say luck. But the fact is, she's just unstoppable. She's a dancer, an actor, choreographer, and a master teacher. She's performed on stages with the likes of Justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears. She also has experience on screen ranging from American Beauty to Coyote Ugly, the TV series Lucifer, and more recently, Palm Royale. Now that she's a mother, she's truly a force to be reckoned with. Please help me in welcoming to the podcast a blast from the past, my great friend, Ms. Nancy Anderson. [00:02:53] Speaker A: You know who Jocko Willink is? [00:02:54] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. [00:02:55] Speaker A: Okay. So he wrote some kids books. Oh, really? On Jiu Jitsu. So Way of the Warrior Kid is what they're called. My son is 7, almost 8, and he is into Jiu Jitsu. So much so that we took him out of his public school and put him in homeschool, and he and my husband go to Costa Mesa so he can train at the Art of Jiu Jitsu. [00:03:16] Speaker B: Is your husband training with him or. [00:03:17] Speaker A: No, my husband did start training Jiu Jitsu, but my husband kept getting hurt because that happens when you're older. [00:03:23] Speaker B: Sure. [00:03:23] Speaker A: But anyway, all the kids love those books, and they have lessons about being, you know, all different kinds of lessons, so. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. I mean, he has great lessons in themselves, too. Just pulling from life experience and leadership and all this stuff. [00:03:37] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:03:38] Speaker B: He's got good. That's great. I didn't even know he had those. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Yeah, most people don't, and I think they're being made into a movie. But anyway, it's just really like, if you're into writing those kinds of, you know, stories with lessons and whatnot, I. I just put it out there. Those are really good books. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I would love to check those out. And, you know, my son's 30 now. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Yeah, but. But you're lucky. I mean. [00:04:02] Speaker B: Come on. [00:04:03] Speaker A: You don't want them to be 30, but you want them to be 30. Yes. [00:04:06] Speaker B: And then the day that they're gone, you instantly miss. Course the three practices a week and the. All the whatever. Like, wait, that was a. I thought it was a pain in the ass. But now I miss. [00:04:15] Speaker A: But now I miss it. Yeah. You have a. Yes. You have a space to fill. [00:04:19] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. Yeah, we're going to get to that, too, because I actually have more questions about your family. Family life. But you're. Originally. You grew up in Texas, but you were absolutely a Californian at this point. [00:04:31] Speaker A: At this point, I have lived in California much longer than I ever lived in Texas. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Yes, but being weaned. And when I met you, at first, I think you had a single mother. Your sister had probably moved out because. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:43] Speaker B: So you talk a little bit about maybe the influence that your mother had, in particular your sister. Because I remember you describing your sister in a way that was. You admired her quite a bit. She was often doing something in New York, Whatever. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Yeah, this is a. I love telling this story. So when I was young, I wanted to be a model way before I decided I wanted to be a dancer. And I told my mom, and she said, okay, here's a modeling school. It was right down the road from our house. I went during the summer. It was perfect for her, Right? So she'd drop me off, and I'd stay there all day. Anyway, I went through the whole program, and then eventually, my sister said, oh, I kind of want to do that, too. So she went. And then at the end, they have a contest. And this place was called Barbizon. So my sister enters the Runway. She wins it for Fort Worth. I think she's, like, 14. [00:05:35] Speaker B: Okay. [00:05:36] Speaker A: Maybe she had just turned 15. [00:05:38] Speaker B: But she's older than you. [00:05:38] Speaker A: She's older than me. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Okay, by how much? [00:05:40] Speaker A: By three and a half years. [00:05:41] Speaker B: Okay, so you were 11. [00:05:43] Speaker A: I was 11. 12. And so then she got invited to go to Ms. Barbizon USA. So she went out to Washington, D.C. at which point she won that, too, which is kind of crazy. So then it's a break, and she goes back to school. And I read all of these teen magazines. Back in the day when there were teen magazines, there was one called young Ms. YM and Covergirl, the makeup company, was having a contest, and it's just on a page, like an advertisement. And I was like. And the girl on the COVID had won the contest that year. And so they show you what the contest is and what all the other girls looked like. And then they have a spread inside the girl. And then you win, like, $10,000 if you win. So I said to my sister, I was like, you should enter this. And she was like, oh, God, no. I don't want to do it. So I told my mom. My mom goes, well, can we enter you for it? She goes, yeah. So she enters it. She gets invited to go to New York along with, like, eight other girls. She wins. [00:06:42] Speaker B: Wow. [00:06:43] Speaker A: And she gets, you know, $10,000. She meets Christie Brinkley, who's like, you know, was it. Yeah. [00:06:50] Speaker B: Wow. [00:06:51] Speaker A: She went on like, Good Morning America. She's on the COVID of ym. And so from there, she got an agent in New York City. So then she started modeling. I mean, she left home at 16. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Okay. So she was super young. [00:07:08] Speaker A: She was very young. [00:07:09] Speaker B: She was gone when I met you. [00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah, already. [00:07:13] Speaker B: So I guess. I mean, that makes sense. [00:07:15] Speaker A: She probably had just started doing all of that. I mean, she lived in a model's apartment with five other girls for a summer and then came home and then was like, I can't go to high school now that I've done that kind of thing. So she finishes high school by mail. Like, you could finish it that way. She got approved for it. So she finished high school, but she didn't go to actual school. But then she started traveling to Japan and London, and, you know, she just had a modeling career. [00:07:46] Speaker B: That's fantastic. [00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So I guess to continue when I decided I wanted to be a dancer because my sister had left home and she had the courage or support to do. Gave me the. You know, gave me the confidence that I could do it as well. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Okay. So it wasn't discouraging at all, though, to see it. It was almost like, wow, I can witness the fact that it's possible. And apply that to your own life. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:08:18] Speaker B: Well, that's great. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I decided I wanted to dance at 15. I was like, this is what I want to do. And I told my mom. She was like, great. The thing about my mom is she's a single mom, and she was gone a lot, but she never said no. But she was always like, well, how are you going to get there? So it was great when I could finally start driving, but up until that point, she was like, okay, we'll get a ride, but here's the money, you know, and she was always there supporting me, you know, but. So if you want me to tell you how I left Fort Worth and all that, I can do that as well. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean that. Because it is fascinating. And to. To do what you did then. I mean, I think there's a lack of perspective when there's no Internet and stuff. I mean, your. Your sister finishing high school through the mail. [00:09:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. [00:09:07] Speaker B: I know. [00:09:08] Speaker A: Correspondence is what they called it. They called it correspondence, right. Yeah. [00:09:12] Speaker B: And it was, you know, me being in the music industry at the time, too. It was the thing, you know, I've got buddies out here that have been out here since you hear about it. They left, you know, from graduating UNT or whatever. But it's courageous because you're just up and leaving. So how did you manage to actually do that? Were you funded or have a roommate set up? [00:09:38] Speaker A: Well, my dance teacher in Fort Worth, Diane west, had a relationship with Randy Allaire and Bill Prudish, who owned the Edge Performing Arts center in Hollywood. They would come and teach at our studio. A lot of dance teachers do that. And then there's a whole, like, subculture of dance conventions that happen, and kids go to these conventions Anyway, my teacher said you should go audition for the scholarship program at the Edge. And this is like a month and a half before the audition. And I had been out to California with her and some girls that were at our studio for spring breakfast. So I knew what the studio looked like. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Was it, like, for some kind of conference that you went to? [00:10:22] Speaker A: No, it was just spring break. And she was like, we should go and take class. Okay, so we did. And so I knew what it was like at the studio. I knew nothing about living in LA. [00:10:35] Speaker B: Or living alone at all. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Or living alone at all. Or living away from home or. Yeah, no, nothing. So my mom was like, great. How are you getting there? So she put me on a plane. I'm pretty sure she put me on a plane by myself. I got picked up by a friend of my sister's who she had met modeling, who had a place in la. [00:10:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:56] Speaker A: He got me from the airport. I don't know him. His name is Brendan. Really cool guy. Born and raised in California, thank goodness. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And so I stayed at his apartment. I took a cab every day for a week before the audition. I had signed up because I had a boyfriend in Fort Worth who was in a band, and I had signed up for junior college. So if I wasn't gonna get into this program, I had also auditioned for Tisch in New York. So. And I was on their waiting list. I went to, like, one of their last auditions. So. [00:11:30] Speaker B: Okay, so there wasn't any particular. Cause one of my questions was why you picked la, especially when your sister was in New York. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Right. I did go audition for Tisch School of the Arts. Okay, so then, um, Sunday, I think we auditioned on a Sunday. I had a plane ticket to leave. Monday morning, I packed my bags and I called the studio and I said, can you tell me, did Nancy Anderson get on the scholarship list? And they come back and they go, yeah, she did. And I was like, oh. I was like, oh, now I'm not going home. [00:12:06] Speaker B: Fantastic. [00:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah. So I called my mom and my sister and they came out and at which point I never moved back to Texas. I would fly home every weekend for the first, like, nine months. I saved my sick days from scholarships, like going to school, excused absences, kind of. [00:12:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:26] Speaker A: And I would fly home for long weekends and see my boyfriend. But, yeah, I never moved back. So then my mom and sister come out and through the studio they go, oh, well, so and so is looking for a roommate. And so and so's looking for a roommate. Call them. But there's no, like, this is where we put our kids up. Here's your dorm. You know, it's not like that. It's very independent. [00:12:49] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, it's like. Yeah, like a trade school almost. You got to figure it out. [00:12:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I did. I moved into an apartment with three other girls who I did not know, and I shared a room with a girl who I did not know. And I cried every single night for a year. I mean, for like, every single night because of. I was scared, I was insecure. I was actually the least. I was the dancer who was probably the worst. Like, I was down there because I started late at 15, I decided I wanted to dance. These kids have been going to dance conventions. They have been getting good training. Some of their parents were dancers. You know, they were just good. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Is it because of the perception there? And you're maybe being intimidated at that age because obviously somebody saw something in your lack of tenure in the dance industry and they saw that amount of talent to where they wanted to fund you? [00:13:50] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think my teacher knowing the owners of the studio helped. Right. It's like, all in who, you know, I think that helped a little bit. I had the right look for Los Angeles. I had the right look for it. That goes a long way in Hollywood, you know what I mean? [00:14:07] Speaker B: Of course. [00:14:08] Speaker A: And I had the willingness and a parent who was like, sure, you know. [00:14:13] Speaker B: Is it tinged toward a certain type of dance, that particular school, or were you on a trajectory to do something specific at that point, or were you just trying to learn different stuff? [00:14:23] Speaker A: It really is geared toward the film, television, and pop star world. [00:14:31] Speaker B: All right. [00:14:31] Speaker A: I mean, I would say that it's. That you can also. I mean, if you're gonna be in a modern dance company, it's more likely you could do it now in la, but not really, but especially not back then. Okay, so if you really wanted to be a ballerina, you're already. You're already doing it at 18. You know what I mean? If you're a ballerina, you are already doing it somewhere in a company. You're not figuring it out. [00:14:55] Speaker B: And stylistically does that seem. And my Neanderthal brain would think that would be the perfectly suited school versus if you're going for jazz or stage or something, or being in a ballet, you would be in New York, right? [00:15:12] Speaker A: You would be in abt. American Ballet Theater or New York City Ballet or Alvin Ailey. I mean, you're going to those places at that time in the late 90s. [00:15:22] Speaker B: What was the one that you auditioned for in New York. What was that? [00:15:26] Speaker A: Tisch School of the Arts is part of nyu, so it's their dance creative department. And it's really heavily modern and really heavily technically based. So it's a lot of modern dance. It's a lot of ballet, too, as well. And they have an amazing theater and they have amazing teachers and. And you learn how to choreograph, and you yourself have to put on shows and choreograph. So, you know, at this school, you're taking classes with regular people, and the teachers are all teachers who are very successful in the entertainment industry as dancers or choreographers. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Super helpful. [00:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah. So. But they don't even have to say anything to you, these teachers. They're not required to. You just get to go to the class all day long. And then at the end of. And then we also had acting classes and voice classes in the middle of the day. So they would do classes for us and mold us and help us grow. And then at the end of the year, you have a show and agents are invited and. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Right. I would assume that's. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Hopefully you get an agent. [00:16:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a big part of that program. [00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah. So you're training and training to really, at that point, have a show at the end, you know, and hopefully get representation. [00:16:44] Speaker B: So backing up a tinge then you were, at least for a tad bit of time, a musician. Right. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Yourself a little bit. You know about this? [00:16:54] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker B: So, I mean, I would love to hear if there was anything that you carried forward, because obviously I would. I would think that there would be some. Some marriage in there in terms of. [00:17:07] Speaker A: How you put those things together, but, you know, absolutely. I've thought about this a lot over the years. How has it influenced me? And I think it really. I was able to open my ears to hear the music, you know, so well that I could be in a pocket when I was dancing. I was able to hear the counts that the teacher's giving me or the rhythm and really match it. Not a lot of people can't match it within my body. You know how you're doing 8,000 things when you're playing the drums? It's like one rhythm here, another rhythm here, another rhythm here. That happens with your body, too. [00:17:53] Speaker B: And you have to feel that. You have to, like, feel that in your soul before you can just translate it. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:58] Speaker B: A lot of people don't understand that other than people who understand, you know, what a groove is or falling behind the beat on purpose or whatever little things that are. [00:18:09] Speaker A: And it's also. It's also the emotion behind it. So is it a groove or is it forced or is it lilty or is it. That also informs how you move, you know, so it's the same thing. Texture, I guess, would be the word. [00:18:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:30] Speaker A: And so you learn that as well when you're learning an instrument. So it's true for the body as well. [00:18:35] Speaker B: That's fascinating because I have. I mean, my wife says that if I tried, I could dance, but I could. I already know I could not dance. [00:18:44] Speaker A: No, no. I think everybody can dance. I'm one of those people. I'm like, everybody can dance. [00:18:48] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, I can dance from my hips up. It's just when you get to the hips, I think that's where it all stops anyway, so. Which means I can't dance because that's one of the more important parts. [00:18:58] Speaker A: No, I think you just have to like let it go and let it come last kind of thing, you know, I think guys get in their brains about that part, you know, a little bit. Whereas for women it's just natural. I mean, my daughter's four and she already moves her hips. I don't think my son, my son is really like. What do you call it? He's coordinated, but I don't think he has ever started to move his hips. I just think it's natural for him. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Some of it's inspirational too, right. You just kind of want to move or you want to sing or you want to, you know, and I don't know. So before you actually left, I don't know if you remember this or not, but there was some kind of presentation. I can't remember what it was. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Of course I remember this. I played the drums live. Yes. In that. [00:19:45] Speaker B: You just friggin brought the house down, dude. But yes, play the whole song. [00:19:50] Speaker A: I played like half the song or something. [00:19:52] Speaker B: That's all you needed. But so, so. And I have this in common with you then at least because you've been through this so many times. I'm sure you're an expert by now. But I remember your nerves got you were you wanted to like. I think I'm going to go home. I don't want to do this. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Right. Was I saying that? I'm sure it was. [00:20:10] Speaker B: You were like, I think I don't want to do this. [00:20:12] Speaker A: He was like, like so quiet in there. [00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:14] Speaker A: Like the pianos and the, and the violins. And I was like, but I'm about to do like a rock song, right? Yes. There's a lot of old people in. [00:20:21] Speaker B: Here with, like, it was at a music store where, you know, people used to buy instruments and whatever, which is. Hardly heard of. You take lessons and you were my student at the time. [00:20:32] Speaker A: That's where I took lessons, and we. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Were doing some kind of deal. So students took all kinds of lessons at this. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Right? Of course, yes. [00:20:38] Speaker B: So they were going and doing, you know, piano recital or playing a French horn or doing a vocal thing or whatever. And yes, I guess that was part of the tension was like, this is going to be really loud, you know, but it's really a hall full of everyone's parents, essentially. But you don't have grandparents. Yeah. But you don't have that really contextual maturity at that time. [00:20:59] Speaker A: No. [00:21:00] Speaker B: Right. And I think that's the point of having those things, too, is you have to learn to say, all right, this has to manifest in. In public before I can, you know, solidify it as something that I can claim. [00:21:12] Speaker A: Right, right. Yes, absolutely. And also, I had a lot of experience doing recitals and performing with dance before these drum. Before this drum recital. Because I had taken dance before when I was young. I was a clogger, and I had taken ballet and jazz. And you always have recitals at these things, but they're loud. The music's loud, you know, and the audience full of people, and the lights are down. So when I got there, I was. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Like, oh, everyone's gonna stare at me. [00:21:46] Speaker A: It's really quiet and bright in here, and there aren't any curtains. And, like, they see me walk and get on the drum. Like, it was just a completely different vibe. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:56] Speaker A: You know what I mean? I was like, whoa, wow. [00:21:59] Speaker B: And was it at all. I don't even know if you remember this. Was it at all a. A confidence thing? Because when you say you'd done recitals before, I think the idea of recital is almost like, if you're really good at it. And, you know, this is the book report that you read the book on. Great. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:14] Speaker B: The book report that you got to stand up and talk about that you didn't read the book is when you're about to throw up. [00:22:19] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I knew I was prepared. I don't really know. I just. And I don't remember being like, I'm just not going to do this, but I bet I was, um. I just. It was just so. Quite honestly, I think it was just the energy. It was so proper. And I was like. [00:22:40] Speaker B: It kind of was. [00:22:40] Speaker A: And I was like, I'm gonna go play the drums right now. And, like, everyone's gonna hate it. Cause it's not this classical thing, you. [00:22:47] Speaker B: Know, or whatever that crank a grunge song through the speakers and played. Yeah. You blew everyone away, though. Everyone loved it. Cause you also appear petite and, you know, oh, this little girl's coming up. Oh, she's getting behind the drum. Okay. [00:23:03] Speaker A: So I wish I had a video of that. [00:23:05] Speaker B: Actually, I do, too, because. [00:23:09] Speaker A: You know, I'm me. So. I don't really remember playing the drum. I don't remember sitting there and playing the drums. I don't have a memory of performing it. I do remember after I was out in the hallway and a mother came up to me. Cause her son was about to go play the. Was there anybody else playing the drums that day? [00:23:27] Speaker B: We had one other student play the. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Drums, so maybe he was gonna go play the drums, too. Anyway, she was like, girl, you did that, and I'm so proud of you. And that was awesome. And I was like, really? Okay. [00:23:36] Speaker B: You know, I think it freaked people out that you came out and played. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Aggressive and Smashing Pumpkins. It was a Smashing Pumpkin song. [00:23:44] Speaker B: Love it. [00:23:45] Speaker A: I don't remember the name of it, but that's. [00:23:47] Speaker B: Well, I was just curious about that, how that played a part. Because when you led your story into the point in LA when you. This training culminates in something at the end. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Where you're doing some kind of showcase or whatever. And you have agencies there, you know, people that are looking to recruit. How did you manage to handle your nerves in those situations? Were you inside your head? Were you disassociating? Or. What do you typically do to get through those? [00:24:15] Speaker A: Well, so that particular performance, we were really happy to be there. We had rehearsed a ton. We got to do many different dances with many different choreographers. We knew that the people in the audience were people we had known all year, supporting us, being in class with them, you know, our parents who hadn't seen us in months, who didn't know really what we were up to. Everyone's family was there, so it was more like a celebration. The agent thing was part of it, but I don't recall feeling like, oh, agents are here. I'm nervous about that. I don't recall that I did not get a call from an agent after nobody called me, except for one person, and her Name is Kitty McNamee. And she invited me to dance in her modern dance company, which was amazing for me because I had wanted to do modern dance in New York because I had gone to audition for Tisch. So it Was kind of like, oh, I get to do all of it now. And then it was great that none of the agents called me, because I called every single one of them and said, my name is Nancy Anderson. I just got done with scholarship, and I would love to meet you. So I got to meet all of them and then choose. Whereas if you get called from an agent and you're not getting called by more than one, you tend not to take all of the. You tend not to meet them all. [00:25:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Where did you get. Was that intuitive on your part? I mean, that's pretty good salesmanship for the time. [00:25:54] Speaker A: Someone probably told me to do it. My mom, you know, someone probably said, well, pick up the phone and call them. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:00] Speaker A: You know, and they took the meetings. Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:04] Speaker B: That's remarkable. [00:26:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And then Kitty was so influential in my life because the dancers that danced for her were these spectacular people. I mean, they still are, but they were so theatrical, and they were unafraid to be daring on stage. And they taught me so much about how to perform and how to take risks. [00:26:31] Speaker B: And it kind of was your first kind of foray into doing something was. It was a paid gig. [00:26:36] Speaker A: It was not. It was not. [00:26:40] Speaker B: That's an interesting point, too. Cause. [00:26:42] Speaker A: But I got to perform. Her deal is we perform. So I was constantly performing with them. And then it was the first time I got to go to Europe. We went to the Fringe Festival in Edinburgh when we got put up. And my sister actually came from London because she was modeling there, met me there. [00:26:59] Speaker B: Sweet. [00:26:59] Speaker A: And we were performing at the Fringe Festival in Scotland. Anyway, so that was. It was a dream. I mean, it was great experience. I'm 19. I get to go and perform with a modern dance company in Europe and, you know, hang out. My first job, I got a month after scholarship. I auditioned for Knott's Scary Farm, which is Knott's Berry Farm, which, if your viewers don't know what it is, it's a amusement park. Kind of like Six Flags or something, but smaller. And they have a show every Halloween, and that Halloween, it was Elvira. So my first job was getting to perform on stage with Elvira. [00:27:39] Speaker B: Sweet. [00:27:39] Speaker A: It was fun, and it was a great first job. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:43] Speaker A: And then I didn't work again for nine months after that. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Which makes it complicated because this industry is. It's. It's unappreciable, and. And, you know, we've spoken to actors, musicians, and it's the same type of thing. So it is. It is a grind, and you get a great gig and then as soon as that gig is over, you're unemployed and you have to go hustle work. [00:28:05] Speaker A: That's right, yeah. [00:28:06] Speaker B: So how much. How much of your success do you think, especially since you came out to la, whether you're going to LA or Nashville or New York or whatever for your specialty. Right. There's going to be just a ton of people that are full of talent. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:28:25] Speaker B: So if you. You almost have to just say, okay, well, the talent thing obviously took a lot of work to get here. And that's almost kind of erased now. [00:28:33] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Because everyone else is also absolutely right about that. So how much of. How much of your success. And I don't mean this in a condescending way at all, because I think I know the answer, but I'm not sure how much is. Was it predicated on relationships? And how important are the relationships and how do you maintain relationships in your industry? [00:28:52] Speaker A: Yeah, the relationship part is so surprising. It's so important. It's so part of getting gigs. Absolutely. However, it was never my focus when I would get to know people, if that makes sense. I didn't ever. Dance is a subculture within a culture of dance and within the culture of art. And LA is an even deeper subculture. Subculture of dance. So we're all taking class together. Choreographers, working dancers, people that want to be dancers, actresses. And we're all talking in class and we're taking class so much. That's how we know each other. Then we start to work. And the choreographer that hired me the first time would end up talking to so. And so I just hired Nancy. She was great. Word travels, right? Word travels big time in the dancing industry because you have to be in front of people to share ideas, you have to share time, you have to talk, you have to be in a room making things with other people in an authentic way. [00:30:12] Speaker B: What you're saying, essentially, it wasn't a contrived manner in which you went to meet people necessarily. It was you just genuinely. [00:30:21] Speaker A: Well, I was just going to. [00:30:22] Speaker B: Got relationships through. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Yes, It's a lot of luck, too. So it just happens that some of my teachers had a commercial come audition for my commercial. Now, in a commercial setting, they don't get to make the choice. The ad agency makes the choice. Like you said, everyone's talented, everyone's beautiful, everyone can do it. It's just. Is it your lucky day? And I really think it. That luck is like 75% of it. [00:30:53] Speaker B: But how much? [00:30:54] Speaker A: I mean, you have to work hard because everyone's Talented, right? [00:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:58] Speaker A: You have to be just as good. [00:31:00] Speaker B: The luck only begins after you spend an inordinate amount of hours putting in the time to get that good. [00:31:06] Speaker A: But after that, I mean, it's timing, it's luck. It's also taking advantage of every opportunity that you hear about. For instance, there were auditions that I was not invited to because the choreographer is with an agency. Only the dancers from that agency are going to go audition for this choreographer so they can make the most money. Well, I heard about it. It was for Paula Abdul, for the movie American Beauty. And I was like, oh, I'm going to. I'm just going to go. [00:31:35] Speaker B: You just showed up on invited, and. [00:31:38] Speaker A: I got the job because the director was like, I want that girl. You know, I mean, he was picking people, and so was she. [00:31:43] Speaker B: But how'd you get into that? Do they not have, like, a list of these people? [00:31:47] Speaker A: I'm sure they did have a list, but, you know, they don't take the time to go, are you supposed to be here? No, they just sign you in. You start learning the choreography. [00:31:58] Speaker B: And then, you know, that's called creating your own luck, though. [00:32:01] Speaker A: That's true. [00:32:01] Speaker B: That's not even really luck. That's called having tenacity. [00:32:04] Speaker A: That's tenacity. And I tell dancers, I'm like, if you hear of an audition that you weren't invited to, just go. [00:32:12] Speaker B: That'S cool. [00:32:14] Speaker A: What's the worst that's going to happen? They're like, oh, you're not with this agency. You need to leave. So you wasted, what, 30 minutes signing in. [00:32:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:22] Speaker A: Or if they don't even have a sign in, sometimes, you know, you have to go to an audition and they just. It's just a room full of people. And then they just go, okay, a number. And you come on up and then you learn it. And then they're like, okay, bring your headshots up here. And they just. I mean, it's the wild wild, you. [00:32:37] Speaker B: Know, and that's similar. I know. With the agencies, the way they work out here. [00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:42] Speaker B: With, you know, with actors, it's a numbers game. [00:32:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I hope I answered your question. To go back to your question. I mean, I. In terms of relationships. Yeah. I mean, it's like every job that you get on. Be a professional, you know, because you don't know who in that group a dancer you're working with is going to turn into a choreographer, is going to turn into a producer, is going to turn into a director, you know, so. [00:33:12] Speaker B: How do you define that? Because I think there's also. You're in a. Creative. Art. Creative. [00:33:18] Speaker A: There's lots of blurred lines. [00:33:19] Speaker B: And there's also a lot of, you know, the creative people kind of function differently. And I know a lot of, like, really talented people that will show up 45 minutes late every time and they're never going to make it. [00:33:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's like, oh, no. Being on time is like king. If you're. If you're five minutes early, you're. You're on time. Right. That's the saying. If you're on time, you're late. [00:33:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:45] Speaker B: I mean, that goes in that industry as 100%. I mean, it's important for, I think, for people to know that. Yeah, it seems like that should just be a given. But so many people live on their. On their own time clock. [00:33:57] Speaker A: Right. Or they haven't been in an environment that insists. Insisted on it until, you know, they've never. And so it's a new lesson for them. Yeah, you know, I was just. I was. From a young age, I just had to be places on time. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's kind of ingrained. That's kudos, though, to your mother and whoever else, you know, influenced you to do that. [00:34:17] Speaker A: And I felt terrible when I was late. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, if I. If I missed something and I was late, I was like, oh, God. And I don't want to feel that way. So be on time. And then also about relationships that I want to share really quickly, is that the one thing that was surprising about the scholarship show, the show that we had after I trained for a year, one of our teachers, Jason Meyer, is friends with Tina Landon. And Tina Landon was the choreographer for Janet Jackson for many, many years. And before that she danced on the Rhythm Nation tour. So she's an example. And it happens a lot. Dancers that dance with pop stars choreograph for them. It happens all the time. And then they become creative directors on tours. And then there you have it. And so she choreographed a number with Jason for our scholarship show. And I'll never forget this. I'll never forget this. We're rehearsing and. Or we come into rehearsal and Jason and Tina are not there yet. And so I ask my dance partner, because we have partner sections, will you go over this with me? So we're working on the side, and Tina and Jason finally come to rehearsal, and we're the only people working, and everyone else is sitting and talking and laughing. And so she comes in and she says, I just want everyone to Know that this is what you should be doing. [00:35:48] Speaker B: First impression. [00:35:49] Speaker A: So I would go on to work with her many, many times on many great projects. [00:35:56] Speaker B: That's fantastic. [00:35:57] Speaker A: She gave me a chance, like, as a pro. And the first time I worked with her, I got yelled at, like, you know, like, stop. You know, stop. Because I had to dance with a guy in a way that I had never danced with a guy before. And I thought it was funny. And he had. And he had never danced like that with. You know, we were new. [00:36:15] Speaker B: Okay. [00:36:16] Speaker A: So we had to get it together. [00:36:17] Speaker B: We're like, damn it, you better figure this out. That's okay, though. That's not. She wasn't. [00:36:22] Speaker A: Oh, no, she. I mean, she helped me, and I think she wanted to help me. You know, I think she wanted to be like, let's. [00:36:28] Speaker B: You know, being your football coach at that point. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Amazing woman. I love her. I just love. [00:36:34] Speaker B: So how did you. How did you end up getting some of your. How would you describe some of the. Whether it be karma, luck you created, or ingenuity, going in and taking on auditions that you weren't invited to. How do you feel like. When did you feel like you had a breakout moment? [00:36:51] Speaker A: So this ties back to my sister in a way. So I told you about my first job, and then I didn't work for nine months. And then I get a call for an audition that my agent didn't call me on an audition. I happened to be working in a dance company with a choreographer named Liz Imperio. And Liz was the casting director for this audition for the Gap. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:16] Speaker A: So this is back in the day when Gap made huge dance commercials. My sister had done a campaign for Gap the year before. [00:37:26] Speaker B: As a model. [00:37:27] Speaker A: As a model. And at that time, they told my sister, we're gonna do these ad campaigns with dancers. And my sister was like, oh, my sister's a dancer in la. And I think she even told me about it, but completely forgot about that. Right. So I'm not invited to this audition. I hear about it through Liz, the casting director. She's like, you should go. So I go, and I get kept and get kept, and we have to come back the next day for callbacks. And my partner. So I'm nervous. Cause this is like a. I've never done this before for, you know, in this scale. [00:38:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:05] Speaker A: And I'm in the callback. And so they keep partnering people up with different partners because it's swing dance, so we have to have a partner. So it's just two of us coming out to audition So a lot of. [00:38:15] Speaker B: Your success also is contingent on. [00:38:17] Speaker A: On your partner. [00:38:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:18] Speaker A: So he comes over to me, and he's bringing me out, and I'm like. My face is like. And he goes, smile, honey, so we can get this job. And I was like, okay. You know, and I put a smile on my face, and we got the job. Yeah. And it was a huge commercial for the Gap. It's called Gab Swing, and it used new technology for the time, and that was a huge breakout moment for me. It's like the moment where the dancer in the movie is like, I've made it. Only you can't really tell because it's a commercial, so it's like, it's not live. You know what I'm saying? Sure. [00:38:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:53] Speaker A: But, you know, you're one of four. So there were two. Two couples, and your face is on a commercial for 30 seconds. This doesn't happen to every dancer. [00:39:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:02] Speaker A: You can be a dancer and like, oh, that. That was me. That. That was me. Because we're just, you know. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah. In the background a lot of times. [00:39:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So I was 19 till 19. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Yeah. That's. I mean, that's a wonderful accomplishment. So knowing you and knowing where he ended up, how did you leverage that experience to take the next step, or did you? [00:39:29] Speaker A: Well, I was. From that point forward, because it was a huge commercial. I was kind of known in the dance world. I didn't leverage it. It just leveraged me. I got a commercial agent from it, which is a big deal. They did send out postcards of me to casting directors. I don't know if any of them worked. Postcards. When we would send postcards out, the choreographer that I worked with on that job, Travis Payne, he kept hiring me. We just. I mean, he hired me on some great jobs. Like, I was a dance double for an actress in the movie Coyote Ugly, which is like a big B movie. People love that movie, but you know about that. Yeah, Yeah. I mean. And I got to clog, which was awesome because I had clogged growing up. You know, they called me because I fit the sizes of the actress, and they had called in a different dancer, and so she didn't work out. So they called me in, and I go there, and they're like, so we're gonna do this clogging thing. And I was like, I know how to clog. And they were like, what do you know how to clog? Okay, great. And I was like, oh, yeah. I'll just show you what you could do here. You know, it was Just luck. I mean, luck. [00:40:52] Speaker B: Yeah, luck. And there's a reason why you kept getting called back, too. And it's not. [00:40:57] Speaker A: I always had a good attitude. I was always really nice. I was always on time. [00:41:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:01] Speaker A: I mean, I really was just mind my manners. I mean, I was a girl from Texas. Like, tell me what to do. I want to make you happy. You know what I mean? I really was there to do this and so happy to do it. [00:41:16] Speaker B: How do you think other people have handled those situations that didn't click? Was it mostly skill or is it just adaptability or personality or all of it? [00:41:25] Speaker A: I think. I think a lot of it is personality. I think a lot of it. In Hollywood, it's about how you look, unfortunately. But fortunately, because you can change yourself. You can cut your hair, you can dye your hair now you can do lots of things that you don't need to do, but you have to find that look and you have to know how you're castable. So I would get cast in very, like. What is the word? Wholesome things, you know, I went on tour with Christina Aguilera when she had the song Genie in a Bottle. And then she went on to do Come On Over. So I started dancing with her. I mean, it's teeny, you know what I mean? It's pop music and luck. Just as, you know, the music industry changes from like 96 to 2000. It goes from Guns n Roses. Is everything ruling the world? I mean, who else, like grunge to a major pop? Then you start getting NSync, Backstreet Boys, Britney, Christina. It starts to blow up again in ways that it had taken in ways that. There was a lull. [00:42:52] Speaker B: End of the 80s, had kind of lulls. But yeah, and it's. That's. [00:42:56] Speaker A: You know what I mean? That's luck. [00:42:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Because you. Because you fit that. [00:43:01] Speaker A: That's the kind of dancing I always wanted to do. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:03] Speaker A: I always. When I went. When I would see Janet, I mean, she's the reason I wanted to be a dancer. I went to her Rhythm Nation concert. I mean, I watched all of her videos. I would rent the VHS from Blockbuster and rewind and try to teach myself and, you know, so that's awesome. I mean, that's what I wanted to do. [00:43:24] Speaker B: So you make it sound simple, too. So, yeah, you went on tour with Christina Aguilera because you kind of fit the mold. Blah, blah, blah. Cause she was still kind of the teenaged up and coming star at that time. Those are huge hits that came out, though. [00:43:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:43:38] Speaker B: It's not like it's a little tour or something. [00:43:41] Speaker A: No. [00:43:42] Speaker B: How'd you end up getting that? [00:43:43] Speaker A: So, again, a relationship. So Tina hired, I don't know, 20 girls to be in her video for Come on Over. We learn the choreography, and Christina comes in to learn it and do it with us. She's this big. I mean, she's half the size of me when I was that size. You know what I mean? And she's a powerful singer. [00:44:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:09] Speaker A: I mean, and she sings live. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:13] Speaker A: You know, and I could just tell that she was not comfortable around all of these girls who were just kind of like, happy and dancing and confident and sexy. And here comes Christina, and she's quiet and also unapproachable in her way. And what I saw in her was insecurity. So when we were done rehearsing, I went up to her and I was like, I just want you to know you're doing a great job. Like, your dancing is great. She was like, oh. And her face changed. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you. So then a couple months later, you know, she's getting more and more famous. She wants to add girls to her tour that's already on tour. So I get asked, and another girl, Tara Sue, I don't know, is it Tina Landon, the woman I told you about? The rehearsal. She's the choreographer. I also know her. By this time, I've got. You know, I'm a more experienced dancer. [00:45:09] Speaker B: Yeah. It's always good to have other people on there, too, that will. You know, when you ask three people who they recommend and you come up a couple of times, that's significant. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Right. So my name was Said. I got hired. I didn't have to audition for that job. [00:45:22] Speaker B: Wow. Even cooler. [00:45:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:24] Speaker B: But a lot of it also was because you, as a genuine person, recognized that, well, she may have been a little uncomfortable. And just as a good human. [00:45:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:35] Speaker B: Said that aside, which, you know, I can imagine. I can imagine certain stars level people would have been like, dude, you know, but. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Well, I think. I think anybody wants to hear, man, you look great. You're doing a great job. [00:45:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:48] Speaker A: Who doesn't want to hear that? [00:45:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And I can understand that, too. I mean, her primary gig is a singer, not as a dancer. So I can see where that would seem intimidating as a young woman especially, I'm sure now. Whatever. [00:46:01] Speaker A: But, yeah. [00:46:03] Speaker B: So what are some of your most. What is some of your greatest and some of your worst experiences as you began to grow through the industry? I mean, you did a lot of. A lot of things, you've become quite accomplished. But was there something that you failed at that you. [00:46:22] Speaker A: Oh, God. [00:46:22] Speaker B: That you had to take forward? [00:46:24] Speaker A: Oh, so many things. Yeah. God. I mean, there are so many auditions. I didn't get the job. And it happens. Like, yeah, it happens. I don't know when it starts to happen. I think it starts to happen when you go, maybe I shouldn't be doing this anymore. I don't really want to be at this audition right now. I'd rather be doing something else. [00:46:54] Speaker B: And that comes across, you mean? [00:46:56] Speaker A: I think so. I think it comes. I think it comes across because dancers have to be hungry. You have to want it all the time. If I'm going to pick a failure, I don't really know if I can do that. I don't really. Now in my life, I don't see the things that maybe I did that didn't do that well, or maybe I didn't communicate that well, or maybe I was wrong to say this, but now in my life, I don't see them as failures. I just see them as, like. Well, that's where I was in my life. And I had a good reason for. For doing that or being that way. And also, I have learned from it. I could have done it this way. I don't really know. [00:47:40] Speaker B: So how do you stay focused when you. Let's say, if we consider not making an audition a failure, which in certain rooms, maybe. And to a normal person who we're talking to, that seems even more devastating. But to someone like you, who. Who has to go in and audition and realize that it's part of the game, how do you stay mentally focused when you get nos in a row? [00:48:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's hard. When you start getting a lot of no's in a row, you do start going, maybe I'm done. For me, I had a lot of success in the beginning. So it wasn't so bad to start getting no's. First of all, everyone in Hollywood in the dance industry knows how old you are because you've been here and all of the choreographers have been working with you. And so now different choreographers coming in, they know. And so that has a big bearing on whether they're gonna hire you, especially if they're a newer choreographer. A seasoned dancer might be judgmental of their work. A seasoned dancer might not have the right attitude that they need you to be more creative or shop work or have enough energy or. Well, it could be intimidating for them. It's intimidating for older dancers to have younger dancers come into an audition which younger dancers don't realize because they look up or they want to be. But for older dancers, it can be like, gosh, you know, I hope I have that much energy. [00:49:11] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:11] Speaker A: You know, hope I can make it through this four hour audition. You know, I don't know. Yeah, you know, it starts to become like that. I would say back to your question about the failure. So I never aspired to become a choreographer. It was never part of my. When I'm done with being a dancer, which I will never be done being a dancer, I really want to choreograph. No, no, no. Like, I can choreograph. I would be happy to do it under the right circumstances with the right people, but I'm more of a person who wants to help you have your vision come to life. Like, I love working in a team environment. So I got offered a job being the supervising choreographer on America's Got Talent. I don't know, 2009, 2010, early days of it. Yeah, it was like in the first few seasons. And I knew the creative director very well, Brian Friedman, awesome person, trusted me, hired me. And I have to say, I was not happy on that job. Never once was I like, this is fun. I was always like, oh, my God. You know, this is really stressful. [00:50:20] Speaker B: And not because it was new. It just. You just kind of. You kind of. It's brilliant to know what you don't want, but you don't know what you don't want until you're in the environment. [00:50:29] Speaker A: And being a supervising choreographer is more like you're supervising lots of different things. You're not really choreographing. To me, to be fair, it wasn't a creative job. You don't have. You have very little time. Different dancers every week. You bring in guest choreographers every week. So you have to get everyone up to speed, do the paperwork. You have to see the acts every week and choreograph them, stage them. What's gonna happen on stage? We make that happen. So they come in with their act and it all gets. [00:50:58] Speaker B: You know, the dancers are gonna be. [00:50:59] Speaker A: In here and this. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Yeah, but there was too much. [00:51:01] Speaker A: But you have like four hours to do the whole show with the dancers after you've done all of the other stuff. So after your brain is like, what have we done today? Oh, nothing. We have to choreograph, you know, so it's just. So I would say it's. That wasn't a failure, but because my heart was like, oh, I'm not. I'm not good at this. I don't want to be here. [00:51:21] Speaker B: It's a great teaching moment. [00:51:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:23] Speaker B: So what about one of the greatest experiences? Even if there's a few. I mean, you've had. You've been a lot of places and done a lot of things, met a lot of different people. What are some of your moments where you kind of had to pinch yourself? [00:51:38] Speaker A: Okay, well, there's probably a lot, but I'll pick a couple. [00:51:45] Speaker B: Okay. [00:51:48] Speaker A: So when I was auditioning for Justin Timberlake, I hadn't been on tour for about two and a half years. After Britney, I had met Justin working with Brittany. I was in Brittany's Dream Within a Dream tour. I'll come back to that in a second. But so he was around at that time. I met him briefly. His choreographer was Marty Koudelka. I think sometimes he saw us dancing on the stage. But anyway, Justin's second album was coming out, and I had always said to my friends and family, because they would ask, well, what do you want to do? And I was like, well, the only tour I really would want to be on is Justin Timberlake's. I just like the dance music. You know, the music is great. And Marty's choreography is amazing. That would be awesome. So it's time to audition. They call an audition. It's huge. It's an open call. There are five to 800 people, easily. I've never done Marty's choreography before. I've never been to his class. I'm really good at picking up choreography, especially at that time. That's, like, my thing. I could, like, pick it up quick. [00:52:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet that's really valuable in that. [00:52:59] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. So I picked it up and I could do it. And then people keep getting cut. We all go to lunch. We come back, and Michelle Martinez is a friend of mine. She was on that tour. She's already got the job. She's sitting in the front. She's already danced with. With Justin. So she's, you know, got the job. She's watching us. And I go off to the side to learn the choreography. She comes up to me and she goes. She goes, I just want you to know Justin's gonna hire you. He said, so? So I'm like. Part of me is like, thank you. But also, we'll see if that really happens. [00:53:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:37] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [00:53:38] Speaker B: It's almost like you're getting in my head. I'm trying to figure this out. [00:53:41] Speaker A: And I'm also like, everybody can hear you. Like, this poor girl right here, you know? What I mean, but I was like, oh, you know, wow. First of all, that has never happened to me in an audition where someone told me before, you know, But I could tell that I was gonna get the job because they called me and three other girls. Four other. Three other girls out, and I could just tell that they were the ones that they were going to hire and me. So then I get the job. So then I go on tour with Justin Timberlake. World tour for Future Sex Love show. You know, it's a big one. We did the My Love video, and it was a great tour to be a part of. [00:54:25] Speaker B: And that's something you had, like, that was kind of a dream job because, like you said, you aspired to be on that. And then your first shot at it. Nailed it. Yeah, that's super impressive. [00:54:35] Speaker A: So, yeah, that's a good one for me. [00:54:38] Speaker B: That's super impressive. [00:54:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And then also, I would say working with Britney, same thing. I was not a Britney Spears fan when I got the job, but working on that tour and all of those videos with her, like, slave and overprotected and we got to go on Saturday Night Live. And performing on SNL is like a bucket list thing. It's a special thing. It's unlike any performance you'll ever do. It's. You know, it's just. It'll never happen again. You know, I mean, you know, some dancers get to do it multiple times, you know, because they. They're lucky that way. So I really. I really enjoyed that. [00:55:31] Speaker B: That's awesome. And then. So you're kind of. You're filling buckets all the way along. [00:55:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:36] Speaker B: And. And then I don't know what shifts, but you're. Now you're taking on a bunch of acting gigs too, which you had done some training for, but you're. Were you picking up acting gigs in between all that stuff along the way? [00:55:50] Speaker A: I was always studying acting. I don't really recall how I got into it. Like, I just. I think I was assisting a dance teacher at the Edge, and he was like, come to my acting class. So then I did. And then my sister moved out from New York. Cause she was unhappy being a model. And she said, I want to be an actress. Okay. I was like, okay, come to my acting class. So then Audrey was going there and we were doing it together. And then Audrey actually becomes quite the actress. I mean, way better, way more successful acting than I have ever been, really. Because, I mean, I have gotten to do a few acting gigs, but it never really was in my. I have to do that. [00:56:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:37] Speaker A: So it's hard going from knowing what you have to do and having a passion to something else. Because it's constantly being compared to the fire of your passion. Like, I don't know if you want to call it passion, but the force that's going, I gotta do this, I gotta do this. I'm just gonna do this right. You know, and that wasn't acting for me, so. [00:56:57] Speaker B: So it was an aside. It was things that you enjoyed doing to the extent that you would want to keep doing it. But it isn't an aspiration. [00:57:04] Speaker A: It wasn't something that I felt like, I'm really gonna stop everything and make sure this happens. [00:57:11] Speaker B: So how do you deal with, you know, I look at your industry probably incorrectly, but I look at your industry kind of like, you know, a pro athlete almost, because you've got, you know, you have your. Everybody wants the young, whatever. Like you said, that's who they're picking from the new. And then you have the veterans. But then, you know, if you're lucky, you know, you'll be 70, 80, whatever. I mean, what is the plan? How do you pivot as you add years to your repertoire? [00:57:43] Speaker A: Well, I think for me, I will just say, I always knew I wanted to have a family later, so I was always okay waiting. And I also went, it's okay not to work as much, and it's okay to let go of it a little bit and stop having all of these expectations on yourself. Because the industry changes all the time. It does change all the time. So what am I willing to do now? I got more of a sense of self respect in terms of the jobs that I like. For instance, when I was a supervising choreographer, I was like, I'm not doing that. I'm not going to do this. [00:58:26] Speaker B: It's a luxury. But, yeah, that's great. [00:58:28] Speaker A: And then I just happened to be lucky that a good friend of mine who I was on tour with, with Britney Spears, was the assistant choreographer on the show Glee, which was a huge hit. She was on it for years, eventually became the main choreographer on Glee, and now she still choreographs for television. So I assist her. She trusts me because I know acting really well. I know how to break down scripts. She trusts that I can know what's going on, learn the lines. So then I help the actors learn their parts. Because it's not just about dancers that the cast has to dance too. So, you know, I have a ton of experience around very famous people. I'm not gonna do stupid things I'm not gonna say stupid stuff. I'm not gonna get nervous. It's just like, we have a job to do, you know, that kind of. [00:59:19] Speaker B: Goes without saying, too. And that's a significant thing, is that you can't be all geeked out when you meet somebody. Even if there's somebody you've always wanted to meet, you've. You've got to just realize that, man, these are all people trying to do their thing. And if you can't get over yourself, then they're going to see that too. [00:59:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's been great. We've worked on a show called Palm Royale on Apple TV with Kristen Wiig and Carol Burnett and Ricky Martin and Alison, Jenny and Kaia Gerber, Cindy Crawford's daughter. [00:59:54] Speaker B: There's some Biggins in there. [00:59:56] Speaker A: I mean, they're all huge stars. And they all danced and were part of the dance scenes, so. And they're huge, grand scenes. I mean, there's lots of extras, lots of dancers, lots of different things going on. [01:00:10] Speaker B: So are you teaching, doing choreography or both or what? [01:00:14] Speaker A: So, yeah, I help create and I also help. And then I. So Kristen was my actress that I'm in charge of, so I teach her. Okay. So she tends to dance or work with everyone in the scene. Cause she's the star of the show. So then I have to work with everyone when she's not there. So she comes, you know, she comes in, she learns her part, then she has to go shoot other scenes. She doesn't need to, like, just hang out for rehearsal. So then I'm there helping other actors learn their parts. [01:00:42] Speaker B: How do you. Do you enjoy that? I mean, I know you've got to enjoy the social aspect of it, too, being around people. [01:00:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And this is also. Maybe ties into what you're saying. How do you pivot the creator? Director of that show, Abe Sylvia, is a dream to work with. He trusts Brooke, they talk. He lets her do her thing when the actors come in. He's not meddling. He's there. But he lets us help them and teach them. [01:01:12] Speaker B: Man, that goes a long way. [01:01:13] Speaker A: And so those are the jobs I'm interested in having. You know, it's about that, the relationship, how much fun are we gonna have? How much trust is there? [01:01:27] Speaker B: And you're in a great position. I mean, everybody would aspire to be there. But I can feel the conflict when you talk about the conscious effort to say, all right, I'm gonna start being more discerning in the things that I take. But in doing so, also cutting Back on time that you're spending in it. [01:01:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And for me, it was filled with having a family. And also I met my husband around the time, like, my mid-30s. I did go back to school as well. I should say that I got a degree in performing arts. So from 30 to 35, I was sort of experimenting with other things. And. And I met my husband, and he started. We started marijuana delivery service when it was, like, starting, you know, in California. And he. I mean, he does many different things in that industry now. I don't do anything with it, but. But yeah, I mean, I was there like, yeah, let's. Let's do this kind of thing. So that was different. Not for me, obviously, but. And then. And then we started a family. [01:02:33] Speaker B: So how has that affected your perception of. I mean, because you have. You have the type of vocation that feels like kind of it's part of your. Your life's passion. [01:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:46] Speaker B: So how has having a family, a husband, and children affected just your perception, your perspective on life in general? [01:02:53] Speaker A: Well, it's made me super grateful for being in. In the entertainment industry. It has made me so grateful that I have that whole section of my life with memories and experiences and people that I love. And when I see them now, we love each other so much. I make time to go to dance class, and I love it. And when I'm there, I'm such a happier person when I go home. I also realized I had a lot of judgments about moms who would stay home with their kids. In my head, I was like, I can't just do that. And my husband is amazing. He's like, what else do you want to do with your life? What is like, come on, really? What's more important than this little guy right here? [01:03:44] Speaker B: Not much. [01:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, okay, you're right. And even though I've spent an enormous amount of time with both of my children, still, daily I'm like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, you are like, don't. Don't grow up. You know, I wanted to. It's. It's fun. It's awful. It's great. It's awful. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, I want you to be close to me. Go away. You know, but really, it's. Having a family is. Is amazing. It's. It is not what I expected, you know? [01:04:18] Speaker B: That's wonderful. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:19] Speaker B: That's great to hear, too. It's. I mean, it did the same for me, too. It just changes your goals, change your perception of. [01:04:26] Speaker A: Nothing's a Big deal. Like, when I go to work and there's something that's wrong, I'm like, it's not that big of a deal. [01:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah. You learn to see outside of yourself. [01:04:35] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. Right. Yeah. [01:04:37] Speaker B: I mean. Yeah, you're right. When you're young, you're in your head and you're trying to figure out how you're getting in this lane and nobody else exists except for the people that are beating you for the part or whatever, you know. Right. Or obsession. [01:04:48] Speaker A: But yeah. Or you're just wondering, did I do a good job? Is it, you know, did I say that correctly? Did I do that? You know, what are people thinking of me kind of thing. You know, and there's none. There's none of that chatter. [01:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:00] Speaker A: Because it doesn't really. [01:05:02] Speaker B: It's very mature of you. [01:05:04] Speaker A: I mean, look, I'm a person who does care what people think of me. Absolutely. I'm not saying that I don't, because I would be lying. But it's just having a family is like, this is the most important thing. There isn't anything that's going to get. Get my goat. [01:05:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Good for you. [01:05:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:19] Speaker B: That's awesome. So this is sort of a weird left turn, but I'm super curious about this and it has maybe more to do with some of the acting parts than the dancing parts, but my question is based in the dancing. So with. I know they're. They're trying to stave off the. The AI revolution here, but do you feel like you're kind of in an industry that is insulated from a lot of the AI takeover? And what are your thoughts in general on it since it's kind of sort of here and going to do nothing but grow? [01:05:57] Speaker A: I. I don't know. I mean, I don't know what's going to. I don't. I don't know how it would work. [01:06:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't mean to be predictive, necessarily, just your sentiment on just kind of. [01:06:10] Speaker A: Like, I don't think that you can get rid of dancers in a scene. I just don't think you can get rid of the human element of it. Like, I don't think you can recreate that. I don't. To have a dance scene, it has to feel. It has to feel a certain way. And I just don't think that you can do that with a computer or. [01:06:35] Speaker B: With AI Even to, like a layman. And I'm just being a devil's advocate here because obviously this is a big deal. But let's. Let's say, like they talk about the same thing with music. And I'm like, well, yes, it's gonna sound so arbor. You know, it's sounds so contrived and goofy and, you know, this sounds. But to a average listener who kind of doesn't care if it's a human or not, it sounds fine. [01:06:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:06:59] Speaker B: I wonder if. Do you think we're gonna end up getting to a point where people just. You know, as a creative. You're lowering the standard because another dancer would be like, all day long. I can tell that that's cgi. [01:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, the thing is, is that we kind of look to our. We look to our representatives in SAG and AFTRA to fight for performers, you know, Whether that will work or not, I have no idea. [01:07:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:29] Speaker A: Maybe it'll split off into two categories of entertainment. Maybe, like, they have to rate television and films, rpg. Maybe they rate it. This is all AI. [01:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:41] Speaker A: You know, but these are people. I mean. I don't know. [01:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:45] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah. You would hope that we keep the thirst for wanting to see and appreciate people doing it. [01:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I would imagine it would start with children. Like, you're feeding it to kids so that they're growing up with it. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Right. [01:07:59] Speaker A: And so then by the time they get to be. I don't know. They don't know the difference. [01:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Because you would think they would be less discerning. But at some point, too, they would. Once they experienced the human thing, perhaps they would say, wait a minute. [01:08:14] Speaker A: If they watch old movies, they'll be like, what's going on? I mean, I don't know. [01:08:18] Speaker B: There's mistakes everywhere. [01:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah. For sure. Or did you see how many turns that guy did? I mean, that, you know, he knows how to do that. [01:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:26] Speaker A: You know? Or do you see how high Baryshnikov is jumping? Like, wow. [01:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:32] Speaker A: You know. Whoa. [01:08:34] Speaker B: Yeah. I hope that, you know, that our essence will still want to appreciate what other humans can do before it gets too long. It'll probably go one way a little far before it swings back, but I would imagine it would come back to that. [01:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, from what I. From what I understand, it's like it's up to the people at the top to make the decision. Like, it's about money. Right. So that's the problem. That's the problem. But then when that happens, you have all of the people down here going, no, no, no. And then that starts to set them apart in a different way. That's appreciated, you know, and then it. [01:09:14] Speaker B: Affects the long term, bottom dollar, maybe. Right. [01:09:18] Speaker A: So we don't really know. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. [01:09:20] Speaker B: I don't either. I'm just, I always like to ask. [01:09:22] Speaker A: I'm not afraid. [01:09:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:24] Speaker A: But I'm also at the. And you know, I'm also an older dancer who doesn't get to dance that much anyway, you know, but like pop stars, they're going to go on tour, they're going to have to have performers. [01:09:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:35] Speaker A: They're not, not going to go on tour. [01:09:37] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:37] Speaker A: You know, musical theater, it's like you go see that stuff in person. [01:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, that's why, I mean, you're slightly insulated. It's not like you're, you know, have a desk job that could be easily automated tomorrow. [01:09:48] Speaker A: Right. [01:09:49] Speaker B: But it's still creeping up on everybody. [01:09:51] Speaker A: I know. And then we don't really know how it's going to affect us. [01:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. How. What kind of advice would you give to somebody, not necessarily yourself, but a young Nancy, somebody coming, maybe even 11 year old who just starting to have that twinkle about getting into an industry, knowing what, you know now, what kind of advice would you give somebody? [01:10:15] Speaker A: I would tell them to train with different teachers as much as they can. [01:10:27] Speaker B: Great advice. [01:10:28] Speaker A: And to not be concerned about winning at dance conventions, because this is what most people don't know is that dance conventions are an enormous part of the. It's like its own other subculture of dance. Kids work, they're competitions. So they go on the weekend, they take class from the teachers, then at night they compete and those teachers judge and they compete against different studios all over the country. And this happens in many different cities in many different weekends all year. So it's a big deal to them if they win. But the thing is, is that they've been working on 1, 2, 3 dances. That's where their time is going. So they can do these amazing things that look incredible, that look on beat. But then when you ask them to stand and hear a new song and just start to dance, it's weird. It's not. They've been working so hard in one lane. [01:11:31] Speaker B: They've created their own niche. [01:11:33] Speaker A: You might not really know how to dance. [01:11:37] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:11:38] Speaker A: There's dancing and then there's dancing. [01:11:41] Speaker B: Right. [01:11:41] Speaker A: You know, and it's a whole big world. I went to a couple conventions when I was young. After I decided, actually I decided I wanted to be a dancer at a dance convention. I did not compete, but I was there and I was like, I got to do this. And then After I started to get correct training, I think I did go to some competitions I never won. And so. And then I moved out here, and I have an amazing career and dance with pop stars and did commercials and movies and videos and live performances. You know, you name it, it says a lot. And I didn't do any of that. [01:12:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's great advice. [01:12:18] Speaker A: It's just, you know, never pay. Never overpay for headshots. Never pay an agent. Never, like, never, like, pay a fee to have an agent. Like, there's so many things I could say. Right. But if you're 11 and you think you want to do it, just know, like, come out to LA for spring break and go take class, you know. [01:12:41] Speaker B: Learn from different people. [01:12:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's hard because in your town, you know, you tend to have to stay at one studio, but go to. Go to dance conventions where you're not competing. You know, pick a. Pick a weekend where you're not going to compete and just go take class and just be around different teachers all the time. That's the best advice. And do ballet. You need ballet. Absolutely. [01:13:05] Speaker B: You need ballet foundationally. [01:13:07] Speaker A: Yes. You need it. [01:13:09] Speaker B: Okay. Because there's lots of different, you know, schools, you know, the jazz and all the different. But you said if you had to pick one. [01:13:16] Speaker A: Yeah. You mean you have to have ballet. [01:13:19] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, I would not have known that. Well, that's great advice, too. I mean, I think it's. It's good to take experience from different people anyway, because they're all going to have different perspectives. You know, you see it in sports and stuff like that, too. You have somebody that's just failing, and then all of a sudden they get with this other coach and they're a superstar because. [01:13:38] Speaker A: Yeah, because they were taught or talked to in a way that opened them up. [01:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:43] Speaker A: And I would also say, like, to a little bit older dancer, you need to hear criticism. You have to hear it. You have to hear, this is what you need to work on. And then you need to go work on it. [01:13:57] Speaker B: Being so damn defensive. [01:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah. You have to hear it. And in a way that you're not going to, like. [01:14:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:05] Speaker A: And. And if that makes you quit, then you shouldn't be in the industry anyway. [01:14:10] Speaker B: Right. You're gonna get a lot worse. [01:14:11] Speaker A: I had a lot of things said to me that hurt me that I cried about, and I did not give up, you know, it just made me angry. And then I was like, they don't get to do that to me, you know? [01:14:22] Speaker B: Well, and that's the beautiful thing about it that you won't take that criticism again because you're gonna fix it. [01:14:27] Speaker A: Yes. Before you come back. [01:14:28] Speaker B: Right? [01:14:29] Speaker A: Yes. [01:14:29] Speaker B: That should be the attitude. [01:14:30] Speaker A: You have to pay your dues in a way. Not that you should take large amounts of harsh things. You know, if someone's being mean, know the difference. [01:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:39] Speaker A: You know? [01:14:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:40] Speaker A: But if someone is giving you, taking the time to look at you and watch you and then give you feedback, you have to take the feedback. [01:14:50] Speaker B: That's great. Anything that I've missed or anything that you're working on now that you wanted to put out there? [01:14:56] Speaker A: No, I think we covered it all. I mean, Palm Royale is a fantastic show. People should watch it. I'm going to plug it because there's a lot of heaviness and a lot of dark stuff on television. And this show is just really well written. It's funny. It's a period piece, which I love. It has great music in it. It has dancing and it is really funny. Kristen Wiig is hilarious. [01:15:25] Speaker B: Yes. [01:15:26] Speaker A: I mean, Alison Jenny is hilarious. The writers do a great. Anyway, it's just a fantastic show in a time when people wanna watch true crime or, I don't know, whatever it is. I don't, I don't like to watch that stuff because it's dark, you know, And I also just want to laugh at the end of the day, like, what show are you going to watch that's going to make you laugh? [01:15:44] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, that's. That would be a good respite for us too because my wife would argue that point because she will go to bed with snapped and watch it all. [01:15:52] Speaker A: You know, just. [01:15:53] Speaker B: I keep looking outside of my. I didn't do anything today, did I? But that's great. Yeah, I will check that out. Yeah, So I have. And I know we checked ahead of time. If you. I don't know if you're a sipper sipper or not, but I did bring you a little. A little parting gift. [01:16:08] Speaker A: Yes, you did. Check ahead of time. [01:16:10] Speaker B: Well, one is. In case you don't have. [01:16:13] Speaker A: I would love it. I would love a book. Yes, thank you. [01:16:15] Speaker B: And you know, happy reading. If you so much. If you hate it, just keep your mouth shut. But if you love it, we donate all the profits to. [01:16:22] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:22] Speaker B: To charities that mentor children of incarcerated parents. [01:16:25] Speaker A: That's great. [01:16:26] Speaker B: So it's for a good cause even. But I think you'll. I think you'll do. But. And then the bigger one. So the reason why I bring this is because this is back to Your hometown. This is repping. This is repping Fort Worth. [01:16:42] Speaker A: Really? Tell me about this. Did you make this? [01:16:45] Speaker B: I didn't make it. [01:16:46] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:46] Speaker B: No, I'm not a whiskey maker, but I'm. I'm a whiskey appreciator. [01:16:49] Speaker A: Okay. [01:16:49] Speaker B: I'm not even really a consort yet, but I. I have. I'm starting to have a decent taste discernment. And this guy actually, you know, you think from Texas grasses and things like that. [01:17:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Really? Sure. [01:17:02] Speaker B: This is great stuff. It has a really unique taste. And he came out here. I think he went to Pepperdine or something. [01:17:08] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [01:17:09] Speaker B: But super smart guy that started this stuff. And they do more than whiskey as well. [01:17:13] Speaker A: Okay. [01:17:14] Speaker B: This is what I keep out here. [01:17:15] Speaker A: Okay. [01:17:15] Speaker B: Great to. Just to remind you. [01:17:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:18] Speaker B: That Fort Worth still loves you. [01:17:20] Speaker A: All right. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm going to enjoy this and so is my husband. I know that. [01:17:23] Speaker B: Yes. Please share. Whiskey is for sharing. [01:17:25] Speaker A: Okay, good. [01:17:27] Speaker B: So I really appreciate you taking time to be out here. [01:17:29] Speaker A: Oh, thank you for having me. I. I mean, I'm like, on a podcast with a lot of people who've done many important things, and I just feel so, like. Thank you for having me. And it's so good to see you. I just remember you with hair down to here. That's how you will always kind of be in my mind. But, yeah, it's great to see you. [01:17:50] Speaker B: I appreciate it. It's. And I. I'm. Without trying to sound condescending, since you're still younger than me, I'm super proud of your accomplishments. [01:17:57] Speaker A: Thank you. [01:17:58] Speaker B: I think you've done so well and you're a great example. And I'm. Can't wait to meet your husband. [01:18:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, thank you. [01:18:04] Speaker C: What's it take? [01:18:05] Speaker B: What you going to do? Do what you're gonna do. [01:18:09] Speaker C: Success around the sandbox the second grade rules Accomplish confident fake to make you do what they want when they won't be the fool A diplomatic base is. [01:18:27] Speaker B: The one to see it through don't. [01:18:31] Speaker C: Let those bigots take you off your game or just let him lose Just sit here in the front seat Baby, ain't that sweet? Take a little honey from from the money be but don't pay the pool an a political magical potion A missing piece at the end of the game A slow roll See the truth in soul motion never found in 60 frames. [01:18:56] Speaker B: Like. [01:18:59] Speaker C: Truth lies between blurry lines.