Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: A lot of our selection has to do with extreme height, where you climb unsupported. I used to tell the candidates on the bus, I said, if you fall off of the obstacle course, you're going to sprain your ankle. If you follow this, you're going to die.
Now you got to decide if you want to do this or not. And some people didn't get off the bus. Don't be afraid of an impossible mission, because your boys will figure out how to do it. And I had 50 of the smartest, toughest, meanest guys in the world, and we pulled it off. And we.
It was. It was the largest tactical operation in the history of the country, and you never heard about it because we were successful. I took a recon team inside of a terrorist compound without support, just four or five of us. That's pretty dangerous. But what scared me the most was not the firefight that we might get into, because I know we'd win.
It was the idea that we would get captured by the other guys, embarrass our country.
We got in, they've got night vision. They got tanks, they got everything.
We do our recon, and we leave. So we're leaving, and we're walking through a field. One of my operators says, boss, there's a bull in here.
I said, don't worry, cattle can't see at night. Got picked up, and we're riding back in the. In the van, essentially. And the guy said, I didn't know cattle can see at night.
I said, all these ages, fine. He said, you lied to us. And the sniper leader said, he lies to us all the time. He told us, this is gonna be fun. Remember.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: We're doing things a little differently on the podcast today. I've invited my good friend Mr. Danny Colson, former Deputy Director of the FBI and founder and commander of the elite hostage rescue team, to sit down with me and discuss fear. We cover topics that range from being in the presence of fear and how to handle yourself when fear comes.
Dealing with the adrenaline dump. We also talk about the anxious feeling people get when they're not actually in the presence of fear, but they fear something that may be coming that they haven't experienced yet and how to handle those situations.
It's truly informational, and I think you'll find it valuable with the types of life experiences that he paints. Now, he's been on the podcast before, and we've gone through his life story and gone through all kinds of crazy war stories. So if you're interested in learning more about Danny Click the link here and you can go back and watch the old podcast. It's fantastic in and of itself, but today is informational. It's for somebody who has a big job interview coming up and they're making a career change, or they're teaching the kids some new valuable lessons, or they're trying to do something elite like get into a high level military or special operations forces, or they travel the world quite a bit and they just need to improve and hone their awareness skills.
It's for everybody who has an interest in protecting themselves and learning how to deal with fear on a higher level. So without further ado, please help me in welcoming back to the podcast my good friend, Mr. Danny Colson.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: We moved our factory out of Wyoming.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Out. Isn't that where I thought you were going? To Wyoming, like next month.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Montana.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Oh, Montana.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: We had one in Montana, one in Wyoming.
And we ran into a code inspector.
Now our stuff has been approved by DOD, ATF, the whole world. And this GS2 code inspector tried to close us down.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: And this is for.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: I mean, we make 155 millimeter, right. Which blows up city blocks, essentially. And we make 140.
And. And we make 40. And so anyway, he.
He closed us down. He said, well, you can appeal this. I said, we're moving out of here.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: The appeal process is going to take forever.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Well, not only that, but then I got to deal with him after the appeal is over, I got to keep dealing with him.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: So we moved out. We cost them $50 million in taxes because we moved everything to Montana and we own the whole thing. We own 1500 acres.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: So now you have two spots in Montana, or that's one. Just the one.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: We just, we just consolidated. No, we did. We expanded our factory.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: So now we can make 155 and 105 and 40. If you want to have a good 4th of July, call me.
We can bow a lot.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: I do, but I just don't want to die. I'm not sure if I could have both in this case.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah, you could.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Oh, come on.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: You could do it.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: When we talked.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
I was on my Alzheimer's. Both of us.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Yes. So I was on my way back from LA to Texas and had called you about something, I don't even remember what. And we had a conversation about somebody you'd run into who was talking about. Apparently you're the one that remembered, by the way, which is amazing.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: Yesterday.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So you know, this is a month ago. It was only about a month ago. And. And yet when we talked about getting together again, it was like, what were we talking about? I don't remember. But you ended up coming back and it was fear. We talked about fear because it's a topic that obviously I've had a lot of experience with, you've had extreme experience with. And it's intuitively something that we teach when we teach intuition and stuff like that. But that's how I kind of wanted to get into the topic, is just to remind people that we had an organic conversation a month ago, forgot what it was about. So I'm hoping that we can replicate it in some way because we don't remember what we talked about, but I remember at the end of the conversation thinking, man, we need to have this conversation while we're rolling. Because it was great. It was great. I thought you have a lot of valuable things to offer.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Well, I don't know, but I've been afraid a lot. I've experienced being a scaredy cat.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Well, all of us. All of us. Right. I mean, it's important to have it. And, and so Gavin de Becker's book is usually what I refer to, although that's not necessarily the end all, but. Okay, so you, you also subscribe to that idea.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: So. So I know him.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: So it's an, it's an acute feeling that comes only in the presence of actual danger. It's, you know, your ears pin back and your in your senses heighten and your sns dump happens. You get that adrenaline dump and everything's happening. As opposed to the type of fear where people are just fearing that the worst is going to happen and they develop their own internal anxiety and all that.
Yeah, I think a lot of people do.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: I mean, a lot of people do. And I think a lot of fear is more fear of failure than it is fear of. Of death or injury. I really do believe that.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: And it's. But it's. And then according to him, it's not even actual fear because you're. You're creating these scenarios.
Hasn't even happened yet. As opposed to being in the presence of fear, you know, you, you're in a dark house and you hear the door shut upstairs, that you're supposed to be alone.
You're. There's fear, right? Not I'm in a house, I haven't heard anything else. And I'm just afraid somebody's going to come in here. That's unwarrant.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: I don't fear that. I mean, I kind of look forward to that sometimes. I think, you know, he wrote a great book, and everybody should read it.
You should read about one third of it, because the rest of it's kind of technical.
But it's called the Gift of Fear. And he talks about subliminal judgments and how you can make a subliminal judgment that things don't seem right.
And that's really important. I gave a. I gave a class at the exclusive, Exclusive Girls School in California, and I'm trying to talk to them about being aware and talking about subliminal judgments. I had a hard time with that. And these are all young girls, high school and younger. And one of them said, we don't get it. I said, okay.
Have you ever been shopping and saw somebody that looked creepy?
They said, oh, yeah.
What was creepy about them? I don't know.
So you made a judgment that you can't articulate. That's a subliminal judgment.
And they're, for the most part, they're valid.
If you have a reason to have that judgment, your brain and your body processes that and tells you you need to be aware of what's going on and be careful.
And Debbie and I had one of them on a trip once where things just didn't look right. And then four guys tried to mug us.
So we. But we realized it was coming, and we got ready for it. And they. We essentially. We ambushed them because they were expecting us to be very vulnerable and we weren't.
We both were armed, and we just kind of made this subliminal judgment about a variety of factors that.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: What were they? Can you mind going?
[00:09:24] Speaker A: We were coming back from Louisiana and we stopped to get water, and we pulled into a roadside like many more we pulled in. And when I pulled by the door, I noticed that there was bandit barriers in front of the cashier, which says they probably been robbed, but that you wouldn't really think about that as a reason to be afraid. And so we. We parked the car and we parked at the end. The left end of the Many More parking lot.
And this guy keeps looking at me. He's leaning against a dumpster, and he's given us the look like, oh.
So we went in and we got our stuff. We came out, and Debbie turned to walk down the sidewalk, said, no, no. We walked out to the gas pumps and gave ourselves more room. Yeah. Because this guy was standing there. It was. He had a hoodie on, and it was July or so. And I thought, well, it's not look. Right. Something didn't feel right. Right. So I. We were out of the car. I put her in the truck. And I started to grab my rifle. I didn't.
I probably should, but I didn't.
And I walked around, and the guy starts going from my right to his left to my left, walking. And I'm thinking, he's trying to put me in a triangle.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Cutting your circle out.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And so I opened the door, and I pulled my pistol out and stayed behind the door. And he. Another guy came running around the dumpster, running directly for me with a ski mask.
So I presented my weapon, took up the slack. I was getting ready to shoot Eminem.
And the guy on my left or screaming, no, no, no, no. He figured out they'd gotten the wrong guy.
And they all. They ran, and we went after them. There were four of them back there, and they took off.
So I closed the door until Debbie gets pistol out and shoot her. Anybody comes up here, and.
But, I mean, that subliminal really wasn't anything that. That I was trained to do. It was just being aware of the totality of the situation caused me to be really concerned.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Right. And. Yeah, and you're right. But part of the training is that a lot of people ignore the intuitive sense.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: They do that. That's 100% right.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: That's. When I do those classes, you say, hannah, how many people have had something happen that wasn't a devastating, violent occurrence?
[00:11:50] Speaker A: But.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: But you do. Something happens, and you're like, man, I knew it. I knew I shouldn't have walked in here because xyz. And it wasn't fatal, thank goodness. Or a major.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: And that's what Becker talks about in his book.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: People who ignore that subliminal judgment and they end up losing. Or some of them lose their lives. Yeah. Some of them have terrible things happen to them. So, I mean, maybe the experience of being in that world made me more attuned to my subliminal thoughts.
Yeah.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: And you just got to realize that it's your own thoughts. I mean, a lot of people are just trying to make sense of something with a conscious thought process as opposed to just listening to the intuitive sense that says, don't go in here.
Or, you know, Debbie walking up and realizing that, no, we're not even walking on this sidewalk. Because I got the weirdest vibe that she could have seen something that was telling. You know, afterwards, you debrief and you realize the hood. You. Who knows if you saw the mask or the whatever without concentrating on it and taking the time to sit there.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: And figure out what it was, what the world that you and I both lived in causes you to be more responsive to your thoughts and plus survival.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: And in you especially. I mean, I don't put myself on that level. Yeah, you should, you know, but you guys. I mean, you guys survive because of those intuitive senses, I think. So how do you deal with that when you're dealing with a team of people and you have guys that are out on a mission we're talking about. I mean, you're leading an HRT teams is one of the highest level special op people out there. And you're. But you have a team of people. So if one of those guys has an intuitive sense, how do you communicate that? How do you know when to lean on that and when to.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: That's a really good question.
I've been asked many times, what's the scariest thing you've ever done? And I've done some pretty scary things.
It's not when you do them, it's when you send people to do them.
That your fear factor is the highest.
Because you're responsible for this team of men.
You plan, you select them, you equip them, and if something goes wrong, it's your fault.
So your anxiety is. Hair is more intense when you send them, as opposed when you take a rifle in your hand or shotgun and go through a door. And it's just. It's just that the way you deal with that preparation, the more you train, the more physical you are, the less fear you have. I really do believe that at one time in my life, I ran all the congressional affairs for the FBI. I dealt with the Senate and the Congress and Supreme Court and all those guys.
And I had six agents working for me.
I made all of them go to the gym and lift weights heavy every day.
And they weren't necessarily that kind of guy. They weren't. They weren't Tegan. They were other guys. And hey, they. One of them asked me, why do you make us do this?
I said, because when you're sitting across from a senator, I want you and him to know that you can choke him out.
It'll make your negotiation stronger. And they. I think they actually benefited from that. They felt more confident. And I think that applies to fear. I think the more you train, the more you work out, the stronger you get and the more adept you are at your trade craft. I think that that helps you overcome fear. There's also another part to it. I think it's really important is because you're with a group, you're not by yourself.
When you're with a group of guys who are the train the same mindset, you do the same training, the same equipment.
And it's the idea you're not gonna let them down.
I mean, it's, it's. Are you scared? Oh, yeah. I've been in firefights where I was scared of death. But I, my, my big fear was I don't want to let somebody down. I want to be sure that I am helping them doing what I need to do to help this all win. And I don't know if I answered your question, but that's, that's kind of the way I look at it. It's that having a group, having the same thought and preparation, preparation, preparation, preparation, over and over and over again is what makes you overcome fear. I believe. Do you believe that?
[00:16:11] Speaker B: So I had two questions from this and I hope I remember them both. If I don't ask them all at the same time, no problem. The training, I agree.
I mean, physical training in essence will actually reduce the effects of sns.
Adrenaline dump.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: You know, some people can get into a situation. You know, I've just, I've been in not life threatening situations where I've still felt that adrenaline dump. You know, where somebody says, I ain't going to jail. And they start, you know, taking their stuff off and you're like, okay, man, classes were about to go in, you know, which is, I love it.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: You're good with that.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: I'm good with it. But at the same time, your legs are go like, what? I'm warble legged. I mean, this isn't good. You know, I don't want to be warble legged, but it's my body preparing itself for combat. Right.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: I have a question for you.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: Were you afraid of the combat or were you afraid of embarrassing yourself?
[00:17:03] Speaker B: I wasn't afraid of either. The only thing that made me hyper aware was the fact that my legs started going and they weren't going to go.
It was just, it was just, you know, you get audio exclusion, the tunnel vision.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: You know, all that stuff that happens. So the, the more you train, the less that feels like it's actually going to inhibit you.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: But the other part is being aware that it's going to happen and then just realizing that's fine. I didn't fall down, but I felt literally like, am I going to fall down before this dude even comes close enough? But I didn't, you know, it was just, it was just. That was one of the times where I marked that memory with that adrenaline dump was so significant that I was, I was perfectly Fine. I don't even think fear was a part of it necessarily, but obviously it was.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Okay, question. Do you think that helped you?
[00:17:57] Speaker B: It.
I think it helps you because your, your body is preparing itself naturally.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: I mean, your body is. I mean, that's why some people are like, you know, I was in this fight and then realized afterwards.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: That I got stabbed during the process or whatever. And you're not actually feeling and, and running through an emotional process or a thought provoking thought process. You're just reacting. So. No, it's absolutely necessary.
It had to have helped me. It had to have. I mean, again, I couldn't describe how, but again, you know, if I, if I took shots, then they weren't effective. But I think a lot of the reasons they aren't effective is because your body has already prepared itself extraordinary way.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Number two, you're working on a lot of adrenaline.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: A lot.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Yeah, a lot. Which makes you stronger, faster, more alert, but also for some people can make you freeze.
[00:18:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Unless you identify types of benefit and sometimes not.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: That's why I think just identifying it as what it is like of this is my body preparing itself in nature's way to prepare myself for some kind of battle, whether it's fisticuffs or if it's a firefight.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: And so. And once you recognize that's all that's happening, then you're just saying, well, there's there. And if you didn't think you were in the middle of something, now you know you are. Because your mind has already seen something like Debbie did that time and has triggered that. Because it's like, you better get ready because I'm preparing you before you even are conscious of the fact that, that there's a threat here.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: There's another part of it too. This is really important. That is preparation.
You were trained to do that. You were trained in defensive tactics. You were trained in how to subdue people. You're trained, in our case, firefights. And so whenever that happens, you perform better because of preparation.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: And that kind of overcomes your fear. How did you believe that? Yeah.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: And that goes back to your confidence too. The more you train also, I mean, you don't want to be overconfident, to feel like you could take anyone. But at some point during the combative process, you almost have to have that mindset.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: No.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: To, to a reasonable degree, you don't want to underestimate your opponent necessarily. But you also can't go into it with self doubt. Right.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: No. You lose.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: You Lose every time.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: So when in the other part, which I'm already impressed with myself, I remember the other part of the question is I find it fascinating that the disassociation almost when you're with a team sometimes, like, I've. Early in my life, I struggled a lot with anxiety and. And I had somebody, you know, try to explain something. Like, you're not able to. You. I can perform something perfectly. I've done it a trillion times. I've nailed it. And then I go to perform it when the red light's on, and then I can't remember the first thing I'm supposed to do because it was just blanking me out. Like, it was the worst thing, you know? So when it comes down to nut cutting, it doesn't perform.
So this. This professional was like, okay, well, explain to me what it is that you're learning. Show me what you're doing. And then at the end, he said, all right, well, who's, you know, who's your. This was a drumming thing even. So he says, who's your favorite drummer? At the time, I was like, well, Elvin Jones uses jazz guy. Whatever. He goes, okay, well, you've played this for me. You've explained all this thing. You've. You've explained how many. You know, you spent 17 hours on this or whatever it was.
Play. Play It Again for Me as interpreted by Elvin Jones. Like, how would Elvin Jones play this thing? And it made me disassociate with the moment. It made me say, well, he would probably play it like this. And I felt like at that point I'm imitating someone else, so there's less of a consequence for failure. At the time, I mean, I thought it was really helpful for the moment. I mean, you have to learn how to get out of the. Get out of your own mind sometimes. And when. You know, this was during my collegiate stint, and that was one of the things that helped me to kind of get out of my own head, because I knew. I knew it, but all the pressure was on me, as opposed to saying, how would someone else interpret it? Now I feel like now I'm an actor, now that's doing something else.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: That's a hard scenario.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: So I. But it was interesting when you said how you were leaning on the other guys, too. You. You. You feel the pressure as the leader, but you also feel like you're performing on behalf of the team as. As well as yourself. So you're kind of dividing a lot of the responsibility.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: Let me make it more complicated in Our missions, they're life or death.
Getting there is life or death sometimes.
And it's also a matter of national importance because, like an example, I took a recon team and tied of it inside of a terrorist compound without support. Just four or five of us went inside a compound, did a recon, and got out.
That's pretty dangerous.
But what scared me the most was not the firefight that we might get into, because I know we'd win.
It was the idea that we would get captured by the other guys, embarrass our country.
That makes sense.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: That was terrifying.
I was really concerned about that. We planned that thing and worked it out, and we had to patrol in and. And a little sidebar thing.
We got in. They've got night vision. They got tanks, they got everything.
We do our recon and we leave.
And we had to patrol a long way to get out of there.
And they're. They're looking for us. They're. They're. They've got night vision. They got other stuff. So we're leaving, and we're walking through a field, and one of my operators says, boss, there's cattle in here.
I said, I know.
And then he said, there's a bull in here.
I said, don't worry. Cattle can't see at night.
So we patrolled out. We got picked up. We were successful, got picked up. We're riding back in the. In the van, essentially. And the guy said, I didn't know cattle can see at night. I said, all these ages, fine. He said, you lied to us. And the sniper leader said, he lies to us all the time. He told us, this is going to be fun, remember?
[00:24:28] Speaker B: And.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: But they were fair, the cattle. They weren't a fear. Afraid of these terrorists who had everything, same thing we had, but they were afraid of cows. I figure. I don't know how that works into our conversation here, but they were. They were. They had the balls to go into a terrorist compound where they weren't kill us if they could, or capture us and embarrass us.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: That's what they practiced.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah, they did practice a lot. As a matter of fact, laying next.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: To a bull is something that, as a kid, you're afraid of. Of course, you've never had. Well, some people have never had experience in dealing with bulls. Most of us have not had no experience.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: I used to ride them, but.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Yeah, so. Yeah, so, I mean, it was fortunate that you were there, because if you were also scared of bulls, you would have given yourself up. Just.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Well, you know what I was. I was just glad we got out of there without embarrassing ourselves.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: And we came back later and took down the op and had it. We had a super, super successful op. But it's just the fact that these commandos who risk their life every day in training, every day they lose their life and. But they were afraid of much cattle in the field. So I don't know where that, I don't know what Gavin debecker would say about that. But it's just kind of, it's just kind of the way it worked.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: It would be tragic to go out on a mission like that. Of all the training and all the, the feats of greatness that they've performed and get stomped by a bull is.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: How they went out. Or worse.
Yeah, that'd be pretty embarrassing.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: So it's like, that's more like fear of failure, I guess. I'm not sure what.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: And if you have more on any of these topics, let me know because again, I don't, I don't remember what we've all covered. But another interesting aspect we talked about, when you're in the presence of fear, that's a key, A key factor. And your mind can, can set you off. And then you know what's going on and then you have to trust that intuition to respond. Give yourself the time and space. But what about the times where you anticipate something which is the unwarranted fear, let's call it. But you know something's going down. So this is where you're in the stick and you are approaching the door quietly. You're waiting for a charge to go off or whatever, and you've got those handful of seconds to go off. Are there, are there things that you do in order to mitigate the participation.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: And it's reading or preparation for that. Yeah, you prepare for it. You prepare your body, you prepare your training. And you, you go through Those doors probably 50 times a year and that. You also go through it 100 times. You're practicing.
So you get into the routine of. This is the way it works. The guy puts the charge on the door, you're in your stack and then you do the countdown. You go in and get them. It's just over and over and over routine. And you're, you're confident in yourself. But what you're really confident in is that you're part. You're teaming. That's where your strength comes. It comes from your team. And the idea. You're definitely not going to let them down no matter what.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: So what about when you have a weak link because there's no way, even on elite teams you always have the. There's always a players which would cover your entire hrt. But then amongst the HRT people there are still a players amongst HR teams there, no doubt. So have you been on in situations where you feel like I have just. I mean it's already a feat of half impossibility that you're trying to accomplish. And if you have a weak link or two in the stick that are behind you or whatever, does that give you a second thought or are there ways that you go about handling that?
[00:28:03] Speaker A: You're all trained the same way. I mean HRT selection is horrible. I mean it's just really the worst you can possibly go through. And. But the most important thing is the amount of training that everybody gets.
Everybody on that team can do everything. The snipers can be assaulters, assaulters can be snipers. And I think that's one of the strengths of Delta and Seal Team 6 and us and, and others, the SAS and GIGN and all these teams is that the training is just so redundant. You do so much of it every day, over and over that even your weakest late, maybe your strong scout.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: Okay, that's a good point. So what do you tell people as they're learning then? Because maybe we can apply this to. I mean this conversation would bode well with other sof guys who have done, you know, no 2,000 reps. That's great.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Better than we are.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: But the answer to that is that we do this for the adventure.
I'd like to be an operator on the hostage rescue team. That sounds like a great adventure. Until you get there and you found it. It's not that great. But.
And you know, we, we like to romanticize this crap. We say we do it for God and country. That is not true. We do not. We do it for each other.
And I think that is the strength of all of it is there's a great scene in the movie Black Hawk down where one of the Delta operators tells the Ranger the same thing I just told you. We don't do it for God and country. Do it for each other. And I think that is the source of your strength. And I think that's the way you deal with fear. Is that you. It's. It's like if I had to do something by myself, I'd play chicken out. If I did it with three other guys that were. Do what I do, I'm going to go through it.
There's another story I'D like to say if I could, please.
Generation two HRT guy went through selection.
Stud. First alternate on the US Decathlon team. Number one is collection class.
Clearly destined to be not only an operator, but a team leader on the hrt.
And one day I'm in my office and working, and he and his team leader come into my office, sits down, he's ashen.
And this is. He can do anything. He can swim, he can fight, he can climb, he can do all this stuff. And I said, what's wrong with you? He said, I can't rappel off the building.
Now, we have a Dorm Building. There's 11 stories. It's not that big. Just tell it how.
And he couldn't do the repelling. Couldn't repel.
So I looked at him and said, well, if you can't do it, you gotta leave.
And he said, really? I said, you think I, as a commander can remember who can rebel, who can't?
I'm not smart enough to do that. We all have to do everything.
So I said, go back and do it.
Comes back to the office, didn't do it. And I said, here's the way I feel about it.
Better you die today than not do that for the rest of your career. You'll come back and look at that building.
Your dream was to be an HRT operator, and you fail because of that.
Now go do it.
Came back, couldn't do it.
So I said, grab your gear. I'd rather you die today than not do this.
So I grabbed my gear, we went to the building client. We rode the elevator up 11 stories, and I roped him in and I wrote myself down. I put him on the. On the. On the ledge, which was a wall.
And I got on the wall with him and I pushed him off.
And he fell down a little bit and hung on his rope. And I told him to announce, and he just kind of said, oh, repel. So I slapped him in the face and said, you announce.
We did it like four or five times at the bottom. He was bounding. He was doing everything perfectly. I said, I trust I will not have to do this again.
He said, no, I got it. Why did he do that?
Because we went together.
I didn't send him to do it. I went with him.
Now, the fact that repelling to me was nothing. I'd been repellent forever.
But I told that we helped him overcome it. And afterwards, my exo came to me and said that was pretty intense.
And I. He. He said. He said, better you die. I said, Let me tell you something. We cannot let each other fail. Fail.
We cannot. You cannot fail in this job. You don't fail.
And whatever it takes to make us successful is what we have to do. We had another guy, we did a job where we had to go underneath a series of tunnels and come up and do combat. And he was terrified of going to the tunnel.
So one of the operators grabbed me by the hand and led him into the tunnel. And when we got to the end of it, he went out and did his job.
But it's, it's just, you have to do whatever it takes to make that work. And I think that, that, that, that, that relationship you have with each other is what makes it doable.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: And that's not why they get into it either, which is kind of the irony of it, right? Because everybody gets into it to go, you know, kill the bad guy and whatever. I mean, you're, you're, you're doing heroic stuff. And, you know about that. It's, it's badassery in that case.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: I never heard that term, but I like it. Yeah, badassery.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: I use it all the time.
[00:33:40] Speaker A: I like it.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: I mean, can I use that necessarily on myself? But yes, that's a good example of badassery. You are, sir.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: No, I'm definitely not.
[00:33:49] Speaker B: Yeah, so, but then, so it shifts. I mean, and I've experienced that too, where you, you, you go into it with one intention and then you kind of learn something. You have an epiphany, and everybody has the same epiphany that it is really about the brotherhood at some point.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: Well, also, you have to, your training has to not only train for the job, but train for the fact that job may fail and you may have to do another job. We learned that from the SAS of the British counterterrorism. They do, they call it option training. And they'll start on them on a training scenario, and it'll, they'll just screw it up on purpose and then they have to do something else. So you train your mind to go down this road. Oh, crap, that didn't. Let's go down this road. And so you're constantly looking for alternatives.
And I think, again, it's what we talked about earlier. It's a matter of preparation for it, just training.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: How do you. So there's a lot of. And I just, I just literally wrote an article on this, so I won't go too deep into it, but I'd love your opinion on this. So when you describe that, and I know how operators are A lot of people feel like Type A's are. I'm going to go in. You're going to show me what to do. I'm going to do it to a precision.
I'm not going to have, you know, any emotion leveraged here.
And I find that a lot of the best operators that I know function best because they do have. They do leverage a degree of emotion and a large degree of creativity, which. Which doesn't necessarily bode well in a conversation. They just think, well, well, you have creatives over here, and then you've got these Type A gorillas over here, but without that, you can't improvise. And then you are even in more fear because you know if this doesn't work, we're doomed. As opposed to. If this doesn't work, I'll be damned before I figure out something else that's going to.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: We don't have that. See, we have plan B.
We never go in Plan A. You go in plan B, but then you're prepared to do plan B, plan C, Plan D.
And so from the. From the first day they're there, they're taught to train, but then they're okay, that doesn't work. So what are you going to do next?
Selection is the same way.
Their leadership reaction course is part of our selection process, and it's a series of events you have to do that are very physical, not particularly hard, but physical. And you got to think through them, and you think, well, that may not work.
Well, let's do this. So they look at the world differently from the way you look at. Look at it.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:23] Speaker A: They're always looking for a better way to do it. That's why in our business, the commander never plans an op.
I never. I've done a lot of ops. I've never planned one. I give the op to the men and let them plan it so I can critique it. If I plan it, it's perfect.
I can't. I won't contrite myself, make myself look stupid, but I don't have a problem critiquing their plan.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: And they have less likelihood of critiquing you. Overly critiquing you. Because you, Commander.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: Well, I'm the boss.
[00:36:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: So I'm the lady sitting in the corner. Right. There's the boss. Right.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: Well, if they knew that, then they really wouldn't critique it.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: Oh, no.
Definitely would not. So, you know, Tegan, I think a lot of failure is not fear of physical injury or death.
It's fear of failure.
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:15] Speaker A: I really do Believe that we have a grandson who's a great athlete, great in everything he does, super smart. But he's very timid to try new things because I'm afraid. I think that he thinks that I don't want to embarrass myself. I can't do it.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: Right.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: So we're working with him like he has a new electric scooter and he's kind of afraid of it. It's because it's not. He's afraid he'll fall off. He's afraid he won't be able to do it.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:40] Speaker A: And I think that's another whole. That's a whole nother.
[00:37:42] Speaker B: And that's typical though of.
It's a maturity thing until you realize that some adults haven't really been pushed off the ledge with the rope either. So part of this is, is trying to compare it to everyday life. Whether it's people that are scared to travel to new places because they're worried about what might happen or, or people just don't understand how to read intuition or they get in a situation where they're causing themselves to have unwarranted fear. Are there ways that, that you would teach a novice, in other words, how to control fear better?
And if there's not something specific to train, Is there a way to keep yourself from overreacting?
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Back to preparation.
You need to prepare for this. If you're, if, let's say you're going to go to Mexico and you're afraid to go, what should you do?
Do all the research in the world you can on Mexico. Learn how it works.
Read all the State Department warnings. What's good, what's safe, what's not.
Talk to somebody that's been there and found out that it's fine. Don't leave the, don't leave the resort.
Don't go down to the. Get a gypsy cab and go downtown because you're probably going to get mugged. So it's. At least I think it's. Again, maybe the best thing to say is preparation. Just get ready, get ready, get ready. I have a, we have a great son in law who's kind of. He's very concerned about safety. His family and I tell him all the time your fear, if your fear of fear, just get ready for it now. He's much better. He does. He's a great. I couldn't ask for a better relationship with, with us, with my daughter. And I think it's experience too. Just keep going. Yeah.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: And part of it's that related to what you said you know, I've heard people say, you know, don't. I don't want to have to. I would rather regret the things I've tried than to regret not having given it a shot.
[00:39:40] Speaker A: I love that. That's a great. I would lose. I may steal that from you.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's less, you know, deadly than your quote, of course, but it. But I think that's part of it. You have to. In order to adventure out and be willing to experience things. Those experiences are what helps you build a playbook for your next one to where you are more prepared. As long as you're preparing each time, you're getting better.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: I think this is really important.
Go through this scenario in your head over and over and over. You know, our family had threats to kill our family from when I arrested McVeigh, and they actually came for us, and so we had to deal with the kids, deal with my wife.
And I think that the confidence that she showed helped our children a lot for sure. Little family meeting, and she said, well, we're not adding these guys.
We got guns. We'll fight.
And I think that calmed them all down. It's like, we're not going to sit around and wring our hands and that kind of stuff. We got pistols. We'll shoot them. And they might have gotten us, but they'd have a hell of time doing it.
And I think that's super important.
[00:40:47] Speaker B: I think it is, too. What about.
What about weaknesses?
Whether it be on the team or any experience you've had, how advantageous is it for somebody to express or acknowledge a particular weakness when it comes to dealing with fear or. You know, sometimes it.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: Well, I can tell you. I mean, the hardest thing about the HRT was, for me was swimming. I hated to swim. I don't like cold water at all. I don't like that stuff.
[00:41:17] Speaker B: Who does?
[00:41:18] Speaker A: Well, apparently the Navy seals do, but. And they deal with it fine. But I think, again, it gets back to, I'm not good in the water, and sometimes we got to swim to where we got to go. So what does that mean? I go train.
I mean, I go to somebody and say, I need you to help me make me a better swimmer.
So I had a bunch of Navy SEALs and duty guys, and they would help me swim practice my swimming. So I think acknowledging you're not that good at one thing, as long as you're doing something about it, as long as you're taking some kind of action to overcome that weakness is super important. Right.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: And then you are leaning on People that you trust again, in order to keep that from turning into a fear when you're on the job or when you.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: Oh, it's like the thing with the bull.
They were terrified of the bull.
[00:42:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: Until I lied to them. So they can't see in the dark. And they.
They went ahead and did their thing. We got out and nobody.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: So it's important for novices, in other words, to express that, but actually take some action to cover those. Exactly those.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Express your concerns, but then do something to overcome it. Then you do.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah. We're not all great at everything. No, I mean, besides you. I mean. I mean, I'm talking about us.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: No, I'm talking about me, too. Oh, my God.
I mean, when you go through selection for the team, we test every phobia you could possibly have.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: How do you do that?
Well, ear factor, style thing or what?
[00:42:48] Speaker A: No, you just. You. You know what people are afraid of. First of all, we have very competent people in our. In our institution.
Psychologists and psychiatrists. They know what phobias.
Claustrophobia is huge among some people. Debbie has claustrophobia. And so we.
We put you in a tunnel filled with water and leave you in there for an hour, see if you can do it.
And if you can't, you don't make the team.
But still, people slide through. You don't, you know, you're not always successful at weeding people out.
A lot of our selection has to do with extreme height, where you climb unsupported. The confidence course, the obstacle course, and whatever I used to tell the candidates on the bus. I said, if you fall off of the obstacle course, you're going to sprain your ankle. If you follow this, you're going to die.
Now you got to decide if you want to do this or not. And some people didn't get off the bus, they'd look at and go, oh, I don't think I want to do that. And I didn't like it.
I did it. I mean, fortunately, I have a fair amount of upper body strength and I'm fairly lightweight.
[00:44:01] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's not what it was, though, right? I mean, if that thing weren't tall and you didn't have to scale it up, you could scale it over. And you knew that if you fell three feet, you wouldn't be hurt. I mean, it's all mental, right?
[00:44:14] Speaker A: Well, if it's like 40ft tall, that's the difference. I mean, if you do fall, it's going to really. You mean, Right?
[00:44:20] Speaker B: I mean, the consequences are significant, but it's also mentally overcoming the fear that's going to keep you from, from doing that. I mean it's all mental.
[00:44:29] Speaker A: The same thing too. I mean, think about this.
A lot of it.
Oh, I know. I'll tell you a story. We're in a helicopter. We have been doing fast roping, which is where you jump out of a helicopter 100ft and you slide down a rope like sliding down a fireman's pole. We kill more people doing that. We do in compound. It's really dangerous.
And we had done a bunch of that out in California and then we took a helicopter ride around the city and we're inside a helicopter in seats buckled in. That terrified me. Absolutely terrified me. And one of my operators did him too.
It really scared me. Scared me so bad that I pulled the liner out of the head of the upholster of the helicopter. I was terrified.
And the, the bureau had hired a psychiatrist to work with us and he was very helpful to us. And I said that scared the crap out of me.
He said the reason is you have a great deal of confidence in your ability to hold on.
You had no confidence in that seatbelt.
And I, apparently I didn't because it really, it frightened me and others too. They were. If you hang onto a rope and you're 100ft in the air over a 10 story building, you know you're strong enough to hold on but you don't know if that, that little seat belt is going to work. They still. That's the way I felt.
[00:45:53] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:45:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it was, it was, it was quite. I mean, I will tell you that scared the heck out of me. I didn't wet my pants or the animal.
I was right. I was almost there.
[00:46:03] Speaker B: Admit your weaknesses. Come on, let's get around to it.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Oh no, I didn't, I didn't.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I've only, I've only been doing stunts in a helicopter once. That's all it takes for me. I already have enough nightmares just watching.
[00:46:16] Speaker A: Other people kills more people in helicopters. They do in combat, man. They are very dangerous.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: Is there maybe a story or an anecdote for something that you or certain that you didn't want to do but did it anyway. That was a particularly rewarding situation where again I'm trying to think of things that people can relate to. Normal people that aren't hrt, special forces necessarily, but people that will hopefully find some motivation and inspiration from the conversation and be educated about fear in general. But something that you accomplished that you thought for sure you were not going to do, but ended up doing it anyway and became something.
[00:46:59] Speaker A: When I was the commander, I got called to the office of the deputy director, Lee Caldwell, and he gave me a mission and said, you've got a job.
They've got claymore mines, they've got night vision, they got machine guns and hand grenades. They train every day and I want you to go get them out.
And I said, okay, can I deploy?
And he said, you didn't say, oh?
I said, what? He said, everybody I've given this mission to, and said, oh, but you.
I said, you don't pay me to say oh, you pay me to do it.
And when I go down to the academy and I give this same mission to those guys, not one of them is going to say, oh, they're going to figure out how to do it.
And that's the way we work.
Charlie Beckwith, the commander of Delta, told me one time, said, don't be afraid of an impossible mission because your boys will figure out how to do it.
And it sounded impossible, but I figured if we break it down, we can do it. And I had 50 of the smartest, toughest, meanest guys in the world. So they planned it. Yeah.
And we pulled it off and we.
It was. It was the largest tactical operation in the history of the country.
And you never heard about it because we were successful.
[00:48:18] Speaker B: When was that?
Yearish?
[00:48:22] Speaker A: 88. Somewhere in there.
[00:48:24] Speaker B: Okay.
Is it 88?
Can you get some clarification over there?
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:48:33] Speaker B: She knows. I know. That's why she smarter me.
[00:48:36] Speaker A: She just has bad taste in men.
We had a lot of adventures.
I'm sure being married to me is not a bargain.
[00:48:46] Speaker B: No.
Yeah. When you have to, like lock down and protect your house with a bunch of kids in it because some people are coming to kill you is a like, different experience for a family.
[00:48:54] Speaker A: And also, every three years we moved. Yeah, I mean, every.
[00:48:58] Speaker B: Every.
[00:48:59] Speaker A: We moved. Every Is your commander in the FBI, you move every three years. Yeah, but I didn't have to do it because she did it.
I think probably every one of them, we'd get ready to do the move and they'll be at Simeon submission someplace.
So Debbie would pack up, move the kids, do all the stuff. I house and I would just come in and we came to Texas and we came down and she flew down on with the two girls. Two of the two or two girls.
And we're having breakfast as a friend's house and on TV it said, explosion downtown Oklahoma.
And she looked at me like, really said, it's not my division. It's probably gas main. It was the Oklahoma bombing.
And I left to go do that.
Left her. Didn't see her for how many months?
And so I'm here and she calls me. She said, would you go out the house and check on something? I said, sure. Where is it? I didn't know where we live.
So that. That's the kind of world that. That she's got to learn to flourish.
[00:50:12] Speaker B: Yeah, well. And after all that, you know, now you get to go get scared. I mean, appreciate the 28 foot. Danny Coulson in Oklahoma City. Now, when you go to the memorial.
[00:50:24] Speaker A: Exactly. We've been back a couple of times.
[00:50:26] Speaker B: Have you.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: You know, Debbie and I did a tour of Oklahoma with NBC and we toured the bombing museum.
And it's pretty dramatic. They do a good job with it. Yeah, it won an Emmy. Enemy Emmy. I'm sorry. Won an Emmy. And because of her. Not because of me, because she was into it. She played a big role in it.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: That's beautiful.
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm sure the grandkids had some degree of appreciation for seeing granddad and these giant whatever.
[00:50:54] Speaker A: Oh, I don't know.
They just think I'm the guy that buys them stuff.
Well, you are the guy that takes them to basketball and football and takes them to lunch. That's.
[00:51:06] Speaker B: I'm just on spoils. And then gives them back to the mom and dad.
[00:51:09] Speaker A: I'm sorry.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: Spoil them, wear them out and then get back to mom and dad.
[00:51:12] Speaker A: No, they stay at my house.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Oh, they do?
[00:51:14] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They do sleepovers. I saw.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: Oh, no wonder you're on your game.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: No, I'm not. She is.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: Needs a TRX when you got grandkids.
[00:51:23] Speaker A: Well, my TRX is going to Montana Monday.
[00:51:27] Speaker B: I know. That's why I need to get you in here. Because we talked about this and then I thought, man, if I procrastinate, we're going to miss this opportunity. You're going to go disappear, make bombs or whatever you're doing over there.
[00:51:40] Speaker A: We blow stuff up for a good. For a good cause.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: So is there anything else fear wise that you thought we should cover for people that might be interested to learn anything from this conversation?
[00:51:52] Speaker A: I think the most important thing here is get ready.
Get your body ready. So whatever happens, you can deal with it.
[00:52:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:00] Speaker A: And I think preparation, it's like playing the drums.
The more you practice, the more confidence you have. I played the trumpet. I wasn't very good. I was loud, but I wasn't very good.
And the more I practice, the Better I felt about performing.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: You know, a lot of that has to do with the pre made decision stuff that we sort of touched upon earlier too, where you practice, you practice for what happens if this, what happens if this? Then all those things are already in place. You already have an automatic if this happens. I do this so that when you have to improvise, you're not thinking of 20 things, you're thinking of three.
[00:52:37] Speaker A: And there's no learning curve.
Yeah, there's no learning curve at all. I mean, if you get ready for plan A and it doesn't work, you do plan B. Yeah. And you've already rehearsed it. You rehearse, rehears.
All these teams that we hear about.
I'm asked often about how do you guys do all that stuff? We do it every day.
Every day. I mean, we take shots past a live human's head into a target. We do it every day. It's not scary for us. It's just what we do.
[00:53:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:08] Speaker A: And I think it's repetition and doing it over and over.
And one thing is really important. Faith.
Having faith in God that, that you're going to be okay.
I was in a plane one time going on a job and we lost our engine. Single engine plane, we lost it. And we're.
We're coming down. And I didn't pray, but God was talking to me.
He kept. I kept in this voice in my head said, you're gonna be okay. You got this, you got it.
And we survived it. We did fine. We actually did really well. And I think that faith plays a huge role in that.
[00:53:49] Speaker B: And interesting.
[00:53:50] Speaker A: I mean I didn't even, I didn't even need to pray because God was telling me, okay, you got this.
So. And we did. We were successful, had a successful job and came home. And don't be scared.
[00:54:02] Speaker B: I'm gonna scare the piss out of you down the line. I got a whole bunch of more things for you.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: I hope not. I think, I think I'm retired now, pretty much.
[00:54:12] Speaker B: You are not retired. Please.
You nor Debbie are retired. She comes up here taking work calls and everything. I'm.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: Please.
[00:54:19] Speaker B: You guys aren't retired.
Very appreciable working people doing good for others. I really appreciate what you guys do though.
[00:54:26] Speaker A: Well, she does more than I do.
I mean, I. This new project with a new 40 millimeter. 40. 40 millimeter. And all this stuff we're doing, that's just a new adventure for me because I mean, I've shot 40 millimeters. I don't shoot them. I don't know how to make them.
I don't know how to do all this crap that you have to go through to get the permission to do it.
[00:54:47] Speaker B: Fun.
[00:54:47] Speaker A: But. And it's fun. Oh, yeah. I've enjoyed a bunch of new people in my life that are people like me, people of faith, and that is arduous. Getting ready to do a factory like that.
[00:55:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:03] Speaker A: Because everybody in the world wants to come in and take your money, and we. I mean, believe me, we've run off. How many? Six people. Five or six people that we had to get rid of. Just kicked them out and. Yeah, I'm good at that.
You're out of here. I don't have a problem with that.
[00:55:20] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sure you are.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: I don't have a problem with that. But it's. It's just a new adventure, and I. I love it.
[00:55:26] Speaker B: And, well, you also mentioned to have the TX ready, so I actually have a special gift slash bottle for you.
[00:55:34] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:55:35] Speaker B: Because I, I, I have a. Oh, I see it. Yeah. So this is the Garrett Hole version. Do you remember when that. When TX made.
When Garrett went down on duty, they made a special bottle for him.
[00:55:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:55:48] Speaker B: So unopened for you, my brother, the tx. So you got to pour a little of this out before you pour it down your noggin. Oh, you pour a little bit out for Garrett.
So, yeah, Garrett was a great friend of mine, but this is. I couldn't think of a better person that could take this one because it's got, like, the badge on there and.
[00:56:04] Speaker A: Oh, that's really cool. Thank you very much. That's awesome.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: And drink responsibly, if there's such a thing. Well, Debbie can oversee that, too, maybe.
[00:56:13] Speaker A: Thing about this is she hates it.
[00:56:15] Speaker B: Oh, okay.
Well, you don't get any.
[00:56:20] Speaker A: No, she's a Paseco girl.
[00:56:22] Speaker B: In the back of my mind, I thought if I have it ready early enough, maybe we'd get the truth serum going. By the time we hit the hour mark, you'd be telling me all kinds of things. But when you brought the regulator, I thought, nah, it's not gonna work.
[00:56:35] Speaker A: You just step in, and she'd be over with her hand in her mouth.
That's cool. Well, this was fun. Hope you guys. I'm out of it.
[00:56:42] Speaker B: Always enjoy it. Yeah, man. We'll get it to people. I. I think there's. There's so many angles to take on this for. For layman especially, but when you have experiences from somebody who's done such extraordinary things, I know it's going to be helpful. So I appreciate it. I always appreciate it.
[00:56:56] Speaker A: Let me say, I feel about this. God gave me a lot of adventures.
He put me with people better than me, so I didn't screw them up.
And that's the way I look at it.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: That's beautiful.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: Well. Well, it's not very articulate, but it's really. It's really true, so.
[00:57:11] Speaker B: Well, that's important though. Like you said, I think a lot of it has to do with leaning on other people and learning to trust people. And I mean, that's how you learn other stuff anyway. So a lot of these people that have that unwarranted fear are going to have to go do some research and lean on some people and. And let their experience.
[00:57:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I get a lot of call. I get calls from PGA Tour players all the time still. Yeah.
Well, I talked to a rules official today because I was out there with the. With Tiger and the boys for what, 21 years?
[00:57:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:41] Speaker A: So.
[00:57:41] Speaker B: Well, they still won't leave you alone.
[00:57:44] Speaker A: Well, it's kind of nice.
[00:57:45] Speaker B: That's good. Well, I know you would. You didn't want to necessarily have to quit, but the travel is the travel after a while.
[00:57:53] Speaker A: You know what, though? The biparticle there.
I have to read about 2,000 documents to get ready for a trial.
And you do that sitting on your butt.
[00:58:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:04] Speaker A: And now my hip hurts and everything hurts. And I was better when I was walking like seven miles a day with Tiger than I am now.
[00:58:11] Speaker B: So instead of I've given you whiskey. I should have given you a stand up desk.
[00:58:15] Speaker A: You should have given me liniment.
[00:58:18] Speaker B: Some Ben Gay.
[00:58:20] Speaker A: Yeah, that would have worked.
[00:58:22] Speaker B: All right, brother, we out.
[00:58:23] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:58:24] Speaker B: Thanks for coming by, my friend. Always appreciate you.
Thank you.
[00:58:27] Speaker A: Holly has great taste. Except in men. Yes.
[00:58:32] Speaker C: What's it take? What you gonna do?
Success around the sand Watch the second grade rules A confident fake to make you do make you do what they want when they won't be the fool A diplomatic base is the one to see it through don't let those bigots take you off your game Adjust a lot of moves Just sit here in the front seat Baby, ain't that sweet Take a little honey from the money be but don't pay the pool.
[00:59:14] Speaker B: An.
[00:59:14] Speaker C: Hypolitical magical potion A missing piece at the end of the game A slow roll See the truth and soul motion I never found in 60 frames like five winding motion the truth lies between blurry lines if you're gonna call up me.
