FIGHTING is the ANSWER - Durwyn Lamb

Speaker 0 00:00:00 And what games look like. It's a part of a club. It's like, it's not kind of like no difference than like, uh, well, it is a difference. But people associated with like, more like a Boys and Girls Club, you know, boys Club, you know, boy Scouts, you know, things like that. But just more on a rougher, rougher edge. It's just you're joining something and being a part of something, a clique in a, in a organization, and you got your brothers and you got what you think is your brothers and your friends and all that kind of stuff. That's how that stuff starts out. And all it is is a bunch of like lost, uh, misfits and insecure kids all coming together under one umbrella, which is, which essentially creates, uh, the destruction pattern. Speaker 2 00:00:52 Maybe you'll recognize my next guest from the UFC stage, or maybe as a world champion Kickboxer. Maybe you knew him from the street hanging out with the Bloods or during a short stint in jail. Maybe you know him as a father of two kids who are successful in their own right. Maybe you know, 'em from kid programs that is designed to get kids off the street and on the straight and narrow. Or maybe, you know, 'em from just seeing 'em in some local coffee joint. Sitting around with guys like me trying to figure out ways to impact positive change on this world. Either way, this is one of the coolest cats. I know. We've become fast friends and I'm super excited to have him on the T cast and I hope you'll join me in welcoming the one and only Durwin Lamb. How you doing, man? Doing Speaker 0 00:01:41 Good. Speaker 2 00:01:42 Good. It's good to see you Speaker 0 00:01:43 Again. Good to see you. Speaker 2 00:01:45 Um, so I'm gonna try to go through some of your story and without going through in a traditional way, and just tell me about your upbringing and what did you do when you were eight. Yeah. But we may get to some of that. Um, I'm curious to start the fact that you're a fight coach and you were a fighter, a professional fighter for a bit as well. Yes. And so having done a lot of that type, type of training also, I'm curious if you had any street fighting experience Yeah. In terms of just letting it loose. Yeah. Um, and how you feel like that translates into when you get into a, a specific martial. I know you didn't mix martial arts, but obviously you've gotta learn martial arts to mix 'em in the first place. That's right. And some of 'em translates, some don't. So I'm just curious how, what got you into fighting? What po what posted, posed your interest in the first place and Speaker 0 00:02:39 How it applies? Man, by default, honestly, cuz uh, my mom, you know, she was a karate lady back in the day, you know, when, uh, really? Yeah, in Fort Worth, Texas, in the seventies and sixties, uh, karate was really big back then. They call it the, uh, blood and guts area, karate, you know, back then it was a lot more full contact, you know, no, no gloves, no hands, no nothing. And my mom was a part of that. And, um, I was able to go to karate class with her. And she actually was a part of her instructor was one of the founders of the co-founders of the, or of the American Black Bell Academy. Uh, pat Burleson, who actually ended up being a judge in Arlington. Yeah, yeah. Quite, quite. So that was one of quite familiar. Yeah. Yeah. Pat Burleson knew him well when I was a young man and used to go to karate class with her. Didn't take much interest in it though, just like was there watching and, and seeing it. And then I think just subconsciously he just came a part of, uh, what I was doing. Speaker 2 00:03:38 So did you, did you, I know when you were messing around in the streets, you, you had some experience out there messing around, but you never got super deep cuz you've always had your own little, uh, level of confidence that you knew you weren't gonna be a, a total troublemaker at all the time. Yeah, Speaker 0 00:03:53 No, no. I just, um, believe it or not, what people don't understand is even if you've trained in karate and different things, it's a different world when you're just out in the real world. Like if you are in a bar, if you are in a club, if you're, uh, hanging out in the neighborhood with the buddies and you get into a fight, the last thing you're kind of thinking about is like posting up doing a karate kick or kickboxing move or something like that. I think the natural instinct is like the, the fist and punches start throwing, you know? Yeah. Because those other stuff go out the window because at that point you're in survival mode. When you're fighting in a ring in a cage, it's more prepared. You're more prepared. You, you know what's coming. You kind of know what to do. But when things happen outside to, you know, just in the real world, Speaker 2 00:04:40 Somebody's brother has a bottle in their hand behind you. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:04:42 It changes things. It, it changes things quick, you know? Yeah. So you don't have time to be thinking now certain instincts come in, you know, uh, that you have, you know, when you're fighting later on, when I was, uh, older and I was working security and stuff like that, and, um, I was a little bit more tame and calm and things broke out in the bar or where I was working. Then there was like when somebody, you had to get somebody out and then those other skills would, would take, because Speaker 2 00:05:10 Then you're playing by a set of rules. You're not just trying to put somebody down, you're trying to safely Speaker 0 00:05:14 Yeah. Get 'em out there distracting me. So you have time to think better versus being with your boys and your family and then something jump off and it's like, oh shoot. And then you just, I can survival mode that quick. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:05:25 So when you were coming up, tell us a little bit about the, the type of environment that you grew up in. Yeah. It Speaker 0 00:05:31 Wasn't, it wasn't really that bad man. Um, for I come actually, I don't come from bad stock, you know, I always tell people a lot of, it's a big thing for people to understand. A lot of, some of us people that did end up going down the wrong road did not come from bad people. You know, sometimes, um, we end up hanging out with the wrong crowd because we're around them more than we are other people. So your parents? Yeah, no. Yeah, we, I mean, it wasn't that good. I moved around, uh, a lot, some growing up. Uh, I spent most of my life here in Fort Worth, but I was one of those kids that was, um, unfortunately was attracted to the wrong thing early. Whereas a lot of kids was like into video games and into, you know, sports and stuff. Eventually, me, even sports, but I was just, for some reason I was just a knucklehead early. Speaker 0 00:06:19 It was attracted to the wrong thing. And then those end up hanging out with the wrong people even early. So then as I was coming up, those are the kind of people that I was attracted to. I don't know why, but maybe cuz I was bored and just cuz I, um, a sense of like, wanna be belong. That's what a lot of people won't tell you is that a lot of that's about, uh, a sense of wanting to be a be be a part of something accepted. Accepted and and things like that. Yeah. Because a lot of boys, you know, our age are insecure. You know, insecure kids, insecure boys. A lot of them ain't gonna tell you that, but I'm here to tell you that most of 'em are like that. You know, most of these guys that become killers and all these kind of things wasn't really like that before. You know, just young regular kids and then they grew to become these kind of things. It's kind of kind of like my situation was, you know. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:07:08 So in, in, um, seeking the combination of events, it's obviously not always parental right? That cause these things, but were some of these kids that you hung out with, first of all? I also think all of us are exploring it. Yeah. Junior high or whatever. We're all trying to fit in and find our That's right thing, you know. That's right. So that's, that's not atypical either. But were they older kids for the most part? Cause I know somehow at that age, if you're one grade above, you kind of automatically get more respect. Speaker 0 00:07:34 Right? Yeah. Yeah. Some, and some was around my age, but had more like, experience in that world. Yeah. And that place and stuff like that. And just was attracted to it. Um, you know, good, good good people, good kids, but just, you know, had had those ways that I always went, went towards and that, that's, that's kind of how that started with me. It was like, you know, um, mom and dad could, you know, uh, they, they can't tell you. And that's what a lot of people don't understand. They're not able to teach you as much and tell you as much about what goes on outside the household in the streets, uh, uh, if they haven't really been that way. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So a lot of us kids learn a lot of those traits and those things outside the household. Speaker 0 00:08:25 That's where all that stuff is, comes from is is your peers and, uh, your friends and even your friends', family. And then outside, outside of that even your extended family, like your uncles, your cousins, and those kind of people. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, those are the people that you see a lot. And those are people that you're influenced by more, more so than your parents, you know what I mean? Parents do the basic necessities that they need to do to help you, but they don't mean nothing by it. They just kind of like, things go over their head a lot. And then, uh, next thing you know, they got a full blown monster as a kid, as a son. You know what I mean? Yeah. Speaker 2 00:08:59 So how did your, how did your life take a turn? What, what kind of events led to, tell me a little bit about that wrong road. Speaker 0 00:09:07 Um, anger. It was a mixture of anger, uh, fear. So a lot of people don't talk about that, but anger, fear, um, uh, being curious, uh, being bored and wanting something to do and wanting to fit and be a part of something that I, that I thought was cool. You know, that's great for me. I'll be honest with you. Like <laugh>, when there was a movie called Colors, when Colors came out, like in 19, I think it was 1988, Speaker 2 00:09:38 That was Oprah and all. Speaker 0 00:09:39 Yeah. Uh, no, no, that was, that was Color Speaker 2 00:09:41 Purple. Speaker 0 00:09:42 Sorry. Yeah. Color purple. Yes. Uh, the gang. The gang, the gang movie colors. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I was always a weird child, man. Little different than everybody else that I, in my family, but when I saw that movie, I was always infatuated with like, those like gangster movies, you know, always like watching, uh, all the old gangster movies and stuff like that. All the action packed movies. And then when that movie colors came out, I realized that that was a part when the CRI and Blood things started coming up. And I was kind of actuated with that before I even knew pretty much what all that stuff was. And then I kind of like started taking to that, to that kind of stuff and then I started seeing it in real life. Speaker 2 00:10:21 So you think as kids, I mean we run into this a lot where you think kids can interpret things differently. Yes. Know, you talk about, you know, rappers are putting on this facade, or you have a movie that portrays something and then as an adult you can take that in and understand that it's just entertainment, right. Or it's just a, a certain approach, but Right. At a certain age you're really buying in. Do you think it was kind of a, something that they herald it as something cool in that? Yeah, Speaker 0 00:10:46 Absolutely. You know, um, it look cool and, and it, and what games look like. It's a part of a club. It's like, it's not kind of like no difference than like, uh, well it is a difference, but people associated with like, more like a Boys and Girls Club, you know, boys Club, you know, boy Scouts, you know, things like that. But just more on a rougher, rougher edge. It's just you're joining something and being a part of something in a clique, in a, in a organization and you got your brothers and you got what you think is your brothers and your friends and all that kind of stuff. Right. That's how that stuff starts out. And all it is is a bunch of like loss, uh, misfits and insecure kids all coming together under one umbrella, which is, which essentially creates, uh, the destruction pattern, you Speaker 2 00:11:29 Know? Right. Cuz there isn't somebody that's stable in the middle of that run. It's their Speaker 0 00:11:33 Running. And even the one that is Yeah, exactly. Even the one that is running it is still young and immature themselves. So it's like the blind leading the blind light, Stevie Warner leading Ray Charles type type thing. You know what I'm saying? Speaker 2 00:11:47 <laugh>. Although I think I would dig that. Speaker 0 00:11:48 Yeah, I would too. Yeah. I like both of those artists by the way. Speaker 2 00:11:52 So, uh, so what did, so what happened to you? What was your circumstance? I know when, when we sat and chatted over coffee, we talked about a lot of things and we didn't really get into that. Yeah. Do you mind the Speaker 0 00:12:01 Window? Yeah. I mean, honestly, it was my cousin, you know, I, I looked, same thing. I looked up to my cousin when we were kids and, you know, coming in back and forth, uh, in town back, back and forth here in Fort Worth and things, and being with him and hanging out, being over there with him, with his, uh, uh, living over there on east side of Fort Worth and, and stop six and, and, um, you know, staying over there with him. And then, uh, with my, with, which is my, his mom is my cousin, my mom's cousin too. And just picking up those habits with him as a young age. Even at that time he wasn't involved with gangs at all. We was just young kids doing things. And I always, we was about a year apart. So I always like, you know, try to follow him and my cousin Andre, try to follow them when we was, when we was over there at the house, or we'd go hang out. We did normal kids stuff, went to the movie and stuff like that. But just, I just knew now that I think about it back then, I just knew that that was headed towards a wrong, a wrong path with, with him. But I just, because he was my cousin and my relative, I kind of followed. Speaker 2 00:13:02 You didn't recognize that Speaker 0 00:13:03 At the time? No. And so when he decided to become, uh, decided to join, uh, the, that organization of, of the gangs, um, I just basically like, Hey, you know, you my cousin, you know, my boy will follow, follow suit behind what he was doing. And then the other guys that, the other brothers and friends and cousins that was around in the same way. You know? So that's how that, that's how that started with me. Speaker 2 00:13:32 And in terms of just getting in with the gang Speaker 0 00:13:34 Type activities? Yeah, yeah. Just following, being a, being a follower when really I always really that I realized I really was a leader, but all of us are followers at that point. He was a follower too. Right. In order for him to become where he was becoming, Speaker 2 00:13:47 Because all of us are followers at some point. Right. Leaders kind of manifest over time. That's Speaker 0 00:13:51 Right. Right. Kinda Speaker 2 00:13:52 That's right. Raised to the top a little Speaker 0 00:13:54 Bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's how that started. And then I got more infatuated with it as I got older, you know what I mean? And then of course, consequences changes when you started getting more deep into things that you, uh, essentially wasn't supposed to be a part of. And that's, that's kind of what happened with me. It wasn't supposed to be that person. I wasn't supposed to be, uh, affiliated. I wasn't supposed to be this kind of kid, this kind of person. It's just, it started as a kid. I'm telling you, it started as a little boy being curious about the wrong things and then it just brewed up until hanging out with Speaker 2 00:14:24 The wrong problem. Is there anything that you think could have thwarted that at, at that point? Speaker 0 00:14:28 No. You know, my mom asked me that. Um, my mother asked me that, uh, coup like two years ago. My, I think on my 44th birthday, she said, uh, you know, if, if I, if, uh, if I could have told you different or if we could have told you different. Her and my, my dad, uh, which is a guy, I hate to use the word stepdad cuz it's, you know, but it's a, a guy that raised me, my dad. So I come to have a biological father as well. That's been a big part of my life, uh, later on. Cool. But they did ask me, uh, had we had the, the, the, the knowledge to tell you these things, do you think you would've done different? Do you think you would've changed? And it was like, man, that was a, it was a hard question cause it was like, man, you know, I don't know. You know, maybe I was already, you know, when when you're a kid you already, I learned that kids make up who they are early. Speaker 2 00:15:21 They Yeah. They, well, they know everything by 15, right? Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:15:25 Just ask 'em. Exactly. Yeah. They make up who they are already. So no matter what, you know, just like me and you talked about, I was like, you're not who you are in front of your parents as you are and Yep. And at home. Yep. And, um, you know, so when she asked me, I was like, man, you know, I don't know, man. That's a good question. And honestly, probably not at, at that stage. Probably not. You know? But I wouldn't have known, you know, I wouldn't have known because I wasn't, um, told about a lot of things, but I wasn't told about a lot. My mom has, they're old school, so she comes from, you know, a background where, you know, they didn't have a lot growing up and didn't have a lot of money, a lot of things. So she understands like hard living. Speaker 0 00:16:05 She understands hard times, but, um, and she understands being in the streets, you know, hanging out in the streets, but being in the streets, hanging out in the streets and being a street person Right. Is, uh, two different things. So she understood some, some, some, some contact in life. Yeah. And, and, and my dad did too. But they couldn't, they didn't understand cuz you know, the old school. So by the time that that gang and being in the streets and being a hoodlum as, as my mama call 'em, hoodlum being all those things, it was already like, kind of like passed over their, their head. They was more worried about why my behavior was always messed up. Why was always getting in trouble in school. Why was I always getting kicked out? Why was it they was just wondering like, what, what's going on? You know what I'm saying? So yeah, Speaker 2 00:16:49 I did Do you still think that's attributed to just kind of following your peasant and Speaker 0 00:16:53 Yeah. And I, I think it's also attributed to being honest. Like, you know, um, not having the, that kind of guidance and, and, and, and those, those kind of long talks that, that I would have with my son. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or some of the young men that I mentor now, I didn't get those, those talks not blaming them. Right. They didn't underst I mean they, they didn't Speaker 2 00:17:13 Have the context to, to have those talks. That's, Speaker 3 00:17:15 That's super fascinating. Right. Cause the way that you've explained it now is you were like the first generation of kids that were growing up in the glorification of gang culture. Absolutely. And your parents didn't understand that. No. So like, I'm, I'm 27, right? So that's all I've known is like that, that's how, that's how people ended up like that That's right. Was the glorification of gang culture. But that's, it was so fascinating that your parents had no concept of that. None. And you were the first one. Speaker 0 00:17:43 I was the first first Generat Speaker 3 00:17:45 Generat generation. First generation. Speaker 0 00:17:46 One of the first generations of, of of that. Yeah. That culture. So, you know, um, and it was crazy cuz my mom did tell me later that she started noticing like, colors that I was wearing, stuff like that, that was changing. She noticed that like later, you know, I was dealing with other things because, you know, my mom's awesome but you know, you, you grow up. Uh, my mama also was a very hard woman to, to be around and deal with when you, you know, um, you know, so as kids you don't realize that you also deal with other kind of traumas and triggers and stuff. I didn't even know what those things was to just recently, like a few years recently. Cuz you're thinking in the culture that you grew up in and our culture, you're thinking that the stuff that you see, the stuff that you hear even in your household or around your household family, grandma, grandpa, mom, that you think that stuff is normal. Speaker 0 00:18:37 So the yelling, the arguing, the, the, the, you know, the talking crazy, the, the violence from different people you see, you're thinking that's just kind of like part of like everybody is, you know, we yell, we argue, we fighting, then we act like everybody act like nothing's going on. I think what happens is that, what I've learned is that a lot of times parents don't realize the effect that you have and that you have on the children as they're growing up. Yeah. You know, and I realized that cuz it took me later on to realize that damn, I was, you know, why was, I was so angry cuz I was talked to a certain way. I was treated in a certain way. So it made me subconsciously angry. And then later on it ended up transferring down the line to, to other things. You know what I'm saying? Speaker 0 00:19:23 Yeah. Being alone. A lot of kids don't, a lot of people don't realize, even parents, I tell parents all the time, uh, just because you're in a household don't mean that your, that your kid is not alone. You know? So being present, uh, doesn't just mean physically and, uh, it means, uh, emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually. And it, it's like a, a full-time job. And a lot of times, uh, we miss that. We miss that. Uh, we miss that route. Yeah. Only because, um, the, the parents before them didn't teach them as well. It only Speaker 2 00:19:56 Has. So you're right. Generation Yeah. Generationally goes back only Speaker 0 00:19:59 Has so much, Speaker 2 00:20:00 A little bit less of an That's right. Perfection. That was good. Speaker 0 00:20:03 That's right. And that helped me go cause I was angry for a while. Once I got to understand and you go back and look at your childhood, you like, damn, some of that stuff was messed up. You know, some of the stuff was said that was done. But then you're like, damn. You kind of give him grace because you're like, I seen, you know, I seen a pattern before, you know, my mom and then that, you know, she did the best that she could, you know, for what, what she had or what she thought, you know? Speaker 2 00:20:25 Yeah. And it's fascinating too. You, you anybody could look at their parents and, and think you go back in your, when, especially if they all were having kids earlier and earlier and earlier, back in those generations too. So you're in your early twenties, you know, you could be, you're 27 so you could, uh, you have already a, a five or six year old kid. Yeah. Seven year old kid, whatever. And the maturity that you're at at 20, raising a kid is, is a completely different game. And then when you become 20, 21, 22, you look back on your parents who you had this impression of mm-hmm. <affirmative> because they were kind of your everything. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they modeled everything and then you realize how human they are. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:21:03 So Speaker 2 00:21:03 That's just, I think that's just a, a, a realization that most people come to Right. Because the mistakes and the efforts that they made, good or bad Yeah. All kind of come into a different context. That's Speaker 0 00:21:13 Right. You know, my mom had me young. She was only 21, 22. Yeah. Yeah. When she had me. So, you know. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:21:18 Mine too. So I mean, you know, you could look back and you think, well shoot, I don't know if I'd have done better when I was 21 or 22 Speaker 0 00:21:25 <laugh>. Right, right, Speaker 2 00:21:25 Right. So it's interesting. So when you ultimately, did you end up getting in enough trouble where you get locked up at some point? Speaker 0 00:21:33 Uh, yeah. Just not, not long, but I, I did some, did a little bit. I was, uh, 18 going on 19 or 19 and I got out about short of my 21st birthday. So, and it was, you know, it wasn't nothing major. I Yeah. Caught a charge of an harassment assault. Uh, didn't do. See, and there's another thing that I gotta tell people, people forget this stuff cuz it's stuff when you're first getting in trouble, you don't know about these things. You know, you get in trouble. You, you know, you get on probation, you think it's a joke. You don't do your classes, you don't pay, you get your probation revoked. Speaker 2 00:22:08 You're just glad you're free at the moment. Yep. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:22:10 Caught another charge while you're on probation. You know, stuff like that. So now you're dealing with, you know, um, um, you, your probation being revoked and then the new charge that, that's, uh, upon you. Um, once I got outta jail, um, I really did not like that place at all. I know a lot of people brag about it and being all this time, no, I hadn't done 10, 15 years, none of that kind of stuff. Didn't want to, um, didn't like it. Uh, <laugh> I like my freedom, but my young egotistical mind wouldn't allow me to stop being in trouble. Hmm. So I kept, I went, you know, I was still young, so 20, 21 years old went back, hanging out with my cousin and, and just things kind of like got worse from there, you know what I mean? It like, it just kind of like tumbleweed, you know, because I, at that point, I felt like, um, my ego allowed me to believe that I had something to prove and I wanted to show them that I can get down who I was, what I was, you know. Speaker 0 00:23:14 So you start doing anything you can to like show who you are, which essentially is a form of a deep insecurity, you know? Right. A lot of people won't tell you that. Right. You know, they, you'll, you'll mask that in, in the, in the art of like being I'm tough, I'm this, I'm that. I'm who I am. That, and really you just a, a, a scare kid and you're just trying to, and then you'll, you'll you'll, you'll put yourself in situations or you'll be in situations where things jump off and you have to show and prove who you say. And Speaker 2 00:23:48 You go above and beyond at that point. Yeah. And then Speaker 0 00:23:50 At that point Speaker 2 00:23:50 You put yourself in that situation Speaker 0 00:23:51 And Yeah. And either, either at that point, either you fight or flight. So once you fight, then it's easier the next time. Then it's easier the next time. Then it's easier the next time. Before you know it, you you're a full-blown, uh, different character. Yeah. You're a different character than who you was naturally. Who you were naturally supposed to, you know, created to be. Yeah. You're, you're different now. You're way different. And that's creates to a lot of people, a kid's, uh, identity crisis problems and stuff. Cuz you lose completely who you, who you are, who you're supposed to be. And for a while I went down a deep dark path, you know, and I'm a, I'm a believer of God. I'm one of those guys. I always had God in his hearts since a kid always was worried about doing wrong. But once you get to that place and it's, and it's, and you're there, you know, it's no turning back at that point. Kinda feel Speaker 2 00:24:44 Like, like you're Speaker 0 00:24:45 Alone. Oh yeah. You know? So. Speaker 2 00:24:47 And one interesting thing that you mentioned is something that I've always kind of touched on. We've got all kinds of ways, different conversations we've had on this, but I'm curious if, so jail wasn't a deterrent at all as, as much as you did not want to be there. You didn't get out and say, man, I'm turning this around. Is there something about the experience in jail that you feel like could have been improved? You know, much like the, the question about your parents, but even more so about jail, because we know about the reciprocity problem. We know about how difficult it is as a young black man in a poor neighborhood to not be put in jail. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if it's not a deterrent, if there's, I know they're educational programs, but it doesn't mean everybody gets 'em. No. You know what, what are some of the things I know e even in the short time, sometimes as a young man, that's the perfect equation for man, I'm turning around. Right. You know, but when that disparity number comes around and then you get right back out and go back in, what, what can be done in the, in the jail or prison systems that you think might have helped you turn it around? Or is it just something outside of that experience? Um, Speaker 0 00:26:00 Maybe more like structural like, um, life programs. Um, this is what I do now when I'm going to talk to the kids. Me and my buddy Angel created this stand call l and a life empowerment workshops where we basically have a whole curriculum on how to teach kids to be prepared for life. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, you know, in jail, talking to kids and teaching them life skills, bank account, how to balance a bank account, you know, I mean job teaching 'em like, hey, if you don't, if you have this felony, you have this deal, you're not gonna be able to get a job. You know, teaching them proper life skills to, to make it in that world. And I think if they have more of those programs in jail, not saying that everybody would be saved, but I think you'll have a, a better lar a better percentage. Speaker 0 00:26:53 I mean, bringing a chaplain in here and there and preach, uh, reading the Bible or stuff like that. Uh, you know, that's, that's, I I understand that cuz I'm a, I'm a Christian, but, but actually sitting in and having a classroom and, and, and classes for these guys and to, um, teach 'em etiquette things and stuff like that to prepare themselves for life, I think could, could make a difference. You know? Um, some, some are gonna get, get it, some are gonna learn some, some aren't. You know, some aren't gonna get it. But I think if we have more of those programs, the the craziest thing about jail is that you want to get outta jail until you get out. You know? Is that you hate it there until you get out. Speaker 2 00:27:34 So a lot of that is, uh, from my experience having not been in jail. Well I've, I've spent the night one night. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't count, does it? That doesn't. Oh man. I knew I should have had insurance that time too. It's really bad actually. But, um, Speaker 3 00:27:49 Ultimately is what you're saying that if you had someone like yourself coming in and saying like, look, I've been where you are in life. Trust me, you do not want to end up back here and if you don't do X, Y, and Z, you're gonna end up sitting right back here listening to another guy that's tell you the same thing Speaker 0 00:28:05 Again. And I've helped so many people, so many young people in that regard doing martial arts and like doing the stuff in the schools and it's a little bit of public speaking. I get a lot of young men now that message me now and say, Hey, you know, thank you. And that was the stuff that you said years ago. It stuck with me. I get these messages almost daily. Yeah. That's how I know that I'm doing the job that I need to do because some of these guys, a lot of these guys were on the wrong path, but it just stuck with 'em. And I, they believed in me. Um, they believed in, in my spirit and I knew I wasn't just a person coming in trying to get something from 'em. So I got that trust from 'em and I was able to help a lot of these guys. And I did it through, uh, coaching and martial arts and stuff. And while they thought they was learning how to fight or learning how to kick somebody's butt, I was, um, spiritually and mentally preparing them for life, life things. Speaker 2 00:29:01 I think that's intuitive too. When you approach somebody, you look somebody in the eye, you kind of get that vibe about somebody a lot of times. Right. Um, do you, how do you feel about guys that are troubled at and you're leveraging martial arts and combatives and stuff like that, which some people might consider something that they could take back out in the streets. Right. And it could be a detriment. And I know you're teaching them different disciplinary things. How are some ways that it actually helps improve someone? Cuz I mean, you know how to fight at a certain age too mm-hmm. <affirmative> and you didn't use it for nefarious reasons. Right, right. Because you learned it after you'd already been in trouble and done all this stuff. You started really getting serious. Speaker 0 00:29:40 Right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 00:29:41 So how do you, what is your view basically on taking troubled kids, teens, whatever, young twenties and teaching 'em how to do something so destructive? Speaker 0 00:29:50 Yeah. Because um, what happens is we break down the mental and the spiritual side of it first, which is like the discipline. And what I'm instilling them is to be structured. If you can come in and jump rope every day, shadow box duties, movement, sit in class, pay attention, listen, hey, stop, I'm talking, pay attention. That starts creating that, that development. When they start learning how to fight and how to defend themselves, you're gonna find out that 90 some percent of these kids are these people that learn martial arts. They start to embody, embody the martial arts spirit. Cuz now they know that I actually can fight and can take care of myself with a actual proper skillset so I don't have to go and hurt somebody on purpose. Because it teaches for the most part a confidence. Yeah. And it teaches a, a real confidence, not a false one. Yeah. Okay. Structure, real confidence and structure. And a lot of these guys get used to being in a pattern of coming to the gym. So then that's what happens. All the stuff that they're learning in martial arts is creating a structural brain pattern in their learning, their mind Speaker 2 00:31:15 Learning, learning how to execute habits. Speaker 0 00:31:17 Two habits. Yeah. Good habits. And then when they go into the real world, they'll start using these things they learn in the martial arts and they'll apply it, uh, to their life Speaker 3 00:31:27 Is part of, in the real world. Is part of it too, when you're teaching kids that come in to take your classes, that you're providing a male role model in their lives? Absolutely. That most, most of them just don't have. Speaker 0 00:31:39 Absolutely. Most of the guys and young ladies that come in the gym are troubled. Even if they come from a suburban background, still troubled. Um, white, black, Hispanic, they're, a lot of them are all troubled kids. Most of the guys that become fighters are have something else going on. Most of them. Most percentage of 'em, you don't see very many. Like, you know, regular, just everyday people coming to do that stuff. And boxing. Cause I coached, I was a coach, boxing coach and then also kickboxing and mixed martial arts coach. Most of those guys, young ladies that come in have that thing. So no, I tell people all the time, some coaches be like, well I ain't they daddy, I ain't this, I'm just a coach. I said, no, uh, regardless if you don't want that role, that role is now yours. So when they come in there, they're in your hands and your arms or whatever you say or whatever you don't say, or whatever you do or don't do, it is gonna affect them because they start looking up to you more than they look up to their parents, more than they look up to their uncles and stuff like that. Speaker 0 00:32:41 You become that, that person that go-to, to guy, they say a coach or a trainer is a counselor, you know, a, you know, a parent, a preacher, you know, a therapist. He's all that in one. And you have to be and embrace it. Um, a lot of guys don't embrace it. I know a lot of coaches and they don't embrace that. They don't embrace it. They just do their job. Their job is to make monsters and create fighters so they can be champions. Um, I'm opposite. You know, I'd rather create, uh, a spiritual world champions. If you become a world champion in the process of me teaching you coaching you than that's just the icing on the cake. But I have a, I really do have a job and it's in my heart and my mind to, to do that job because I know, you know, I see it in her eyes, I see it. He's got kids' eyes when I see 'em. Like there's a lot of trouble, things they need help with. So I, I want to help them pass through that. Speaker 2 00:33:30 And I think, um, that being said, uh, doing what you do is not for everybody. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because you can be a very talented fighter, but doesn't make you a talented coach. Right, right. And you could even be a talented coach when you're teaching technique. Right. But if that's where it stops, that's where it stops. That's right. And I think I, I mentioned this to you also is, um, you know, you are are somewhat of a chameleon, you know, cuz you've got guys in the hood that still look up to you guys that are still doing bad things, that look up to you guys like me that look up to you and, you know, we commune and talk about cool things. Um, and there are not that many people that can sit in the middle of a room full of that kind of diversity. All right. And still be the guy. What do you think is, what do you think makes that, uh, you such a magnetic personality for people like that? Speaker 0 00:34:20 Um, I've seen all different types of people. I've been around all different types of people, uh, lately in my life growing up, more so in my adult years and then doing that. And I just think it's, uh, the spirit, you know, um, I, I attribute that to the spirit of God in, uh, Jesus Christ, just being honest with you because it's a, it's one spirit and, um, that spirit is universal. And, um, when you try to walk, um, and, and that that light, um, uh, and try to be as pure as you can. I'm, I'm not perfect and I make mistakes like everybody else, but when your intentions and um, and your desires is to be pure, um, with people, um, it doesn't matter what they see on the exterior. Uh, they, it is what they see on the inside. And I think that's what a lot of people have. I can talk to anybody and I've talked to some of the most, the most wealthiest people in the world, to the guys on the street. That's just who it is. And so it's what they see inside of your spirit that makes you a, makes you a chameleon like that. Speaker 2 00:35:27 And so how did you manage to, so you've, you've brought that forward. You also obviously have success in business. Uh, you know, you've run your own gym. Yeah. You've got some, you have more than one fighter. I assume that that fighter pro. Speaker 0 00:35:38 Yeah. I have a few fighters, few amateur fighters and a few pro fighters, uh, that I trained, you know? Speaker 2 00:35:43 Yeah. So how'd you establish that and tell us a little bit about your levels of success there. Speaker 0 00:35:48 Yeah, I just, um, I was a coach, started coaching, you know, 20 years ago. And then, um, and that's an interesting thing there cuz I didn't know I was gonna be your coach. So it's just kind of weird how your path goes. All you had to do is keep stepping and walking. I tell people you'll find your purpose by just keep moving in life. You know, you, you know, it is you. A lot of us don't know what we, what we're trying to do. At 25, 24, 25, 26 years old, started coaching, um, uh, my, my stepson at the time. And then I led into coaching a full boxing team and then led him to a whole m m A team and into opening up a gym at that point. And then training guys, uh, that went to the organization, uh, uh, U F C and had some guys fight Showtime boxing and H B O and uh, E S P, all those things. Speaker 0 00:36:35 Um, and then the process of that happening, I was, uh, um, fighting as well. So I was fighting and coaching. Really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because I had a couple of ideas and dreams that I wanted to accomplish myself that I didn't get a chance to do. You know, um, didn't know they were gonna be dreams, but it was something at the time I was like, man, I wanna do this. So I kept coaching and things like that and just end up taking off like white wildfire from there. I didn't even know that it was gonna become big. End up opening up a gym. We started out named phs. M m a man, had a nice gym. Then we moved over there down in university. Been there for 10 years and now we have another spot. And so now I'm just coaching a lot of people ask the question, are you passionate about coaching? Speaker 0 00:37:15 I'm like, I don't know so much If I'm passionate about coaching fighters, I think I'm just more passionate about the people and helping people, you know what I mean? Um, being a martial artist is cool. Um, it's something that I acquired over the years for having a skillset and, and training and stuff. But, uh, you know, I'm not so big. I'm big on more like helping the young people and seeing what they do in their lives. And so, but it, it actually ended up working out cause they end up, uh, being able to put a couple of like three people in the, in the U ffc and, and that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy. Like it, I, I wasn't, that wasn't my plan at first to coach at all. It just like, I didn't even know I was gonna train m m a fighters. I've started out coaching, boxing. Yeah. But I had a background in, um, karate and TaeKwonDo, you know, and then some boxing. And so then that's kind of all how all that and, and uh, jiujitsu and that's how all that Speaker 2 00:38:08 Came up. And that's super old school too. Yeah. Cause that's also, you know, in the eighties again, the, the karate stuff and kickboxing, I kick to my noses still silent. <laugh>. I didn't know how to set my nose properly. Yeah. <laugh>, you gotta lose some, right? Yeah. Yeah. Have you lost any fights? Yeah, Speaker 0 00:38:23 I have. I lost, um, I lost a couple of fights, uh, pro m m a fights and yeah, put myself out line. Won also won a amateur world title in kickboxing. So in 2008 I won a, a kickboxing title. Speaker 2 00:38:36 So in 2008 mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And that's one of those things too. You can only compete so long in, in the ring. So it's fantastic that you're able to, to segue into teaching people the skills and then leverage the life skills that you're bringing forward too. That's awesome. Speaker 0 00:38:51 Yeah. Coaching is a thankless job, I'm gonna tell you that. Uh, it's not, it's not. And it's not for the faint of heart. I think I have more trouble, uh, in being a coach. Uh, well besides relationships and stuff, but, uh, <laugh>, I have more problem being a coach than I did, uh, in anything else in my life. Being a gym owner and being a trainer was more problems that I had than actually, than anything in the streets. Yeah. It was rough, man. It's been rough man. 20 years cuz you know, um, they don't, it, it, people are, they're selfish, you know, a lot of fighters, a lot of people that you work, they're selfish by, by nature, the selfish. And so you're putting more in then you're getting back, you know? So the only way I can say is that how, what I get out of it is saying people, um, accomplish their goals and seeing people become, uh, better men and better women. Yeah. That's what I get out of it. Speaker 2 00:39:46 Yeah. Cuz I mean, when they're coming to you Yeah. If they were already molded, then you're not accomplishing much anyway. That's right. That's right. If you need a bunch of knuckleheads, then you gotta put up with knuckleheads. Yeah. Until you can mold 'em into men again. Even Speaker 0 00:39:58 If I stop coaching, uh, today, I will still be in the path of helping young people where if it's counseling and things like that. So that will still be my job. That would still be my purpose, you know, that would still be my destination. Um, it's just that I didn't know that what I was <laugh>, I didn't know what I was signing up for when I first started coaching man. And sometimes I wish I didn't sign up for it, but I'm glad that I did because the ones that did appreciate it, the ones that do, uh, doing well and a lot of guys, I realize that wasn't gonna be great. I, I know which ones are gonna go far in fighting and I know which ones aren't. I have that eye, I can see it. That's not the point. Um, the point is, uh, being able to keep 'em around long enough to where I can instill something into 'em. Speaker 0 00:40:43 There's a lot of guys that fought for me that only had a few fights and now are doing great things in their life. Uh, businessman, uh, husbands now, you know, got kids some wives, you know. So that to me is the su is the success story, you know what I'm saying? And then them texting me saying, Hey Coach Derwin, um, man, um, a lot of stuff Did you Tommy me or Hey man, it's cuz of you that I got closer to God or it's cuz of you because the things you taught me. That's where, where I feel like the winning on the winning side of it. Speaker 2 00:41:12 That's a great testimony. Yeah. Because again, you can teach 'em how to be great fighters too. Right. But that only has a longevity is only so long. Right. You know, you're gonna be in your thirties and washed up before you know it. And if you're not carrying forward those life skills Right. What's the point? So what you're doing for them is a heck of a lot. Yeah. Bigger than, than teaching 'em Speaker 0 00:41:32 Fight. And they see things in you, you know, there's things they're gonna see in you that aren't always right. So it's hard when you, like I said, when you're on a platform being a leader, man, all eyes on you. So you know, you do, if, if a regular person do something wrong that, but you coach a leader, a trainer. So it's like always having to be like walking around on eggshells. And what people don't understand is what coaches go through themselves. I'm actually gonna write a book about that. The behind the scenes or what happens that are us guys that are normal people too. They forget that we're normal and we have emotions, we have feelings, we have family, we have kids, we have all these problems. And nobody really says, Hey, how you doing? Or Hey coach, how you doing? Or Hey dad, are you okay? Or Hey, uh, uncle, you know, whatever. It's, it's always like Speaker 2 00:42:20 Reciprocate the things that you're Speaker 0 00:42:21 Doing. No, never really man, you, you know, no one really checks on you. You know, the ones that do or the other ones, you know, thank God, like I have my, my, my dad, you know, I talk to him a lot. But for the most part, people aren't calling saying, Hey coach, how you being? You need anything? Are you okay? No. It's always the other way around. Mm-hmm. You know? So, and people don't realize that a lot of times coaches go through their own spiritual battles, emotional battles, financial battles and things that, and they could be going through something right then and there while they steady trying to help you. Yeah. Steady helping you and you steady taking from him. But he's going through the things right now and they don't know that that coach is at home crying sometimes and he's at home crying sometimes trying to wonder how he is gonna pay his bills, how he is gonna do this, how he's gonna do that. They don't see nothing and you Speaker 2 00:43:02 Gotta show up and be stoic. Yeah. Because every time they're following your lead. Oh yeah, Speaker 0 00:43:06 For sure. Speaker 2 00:43:07 Well that's, that's too bad. But at the same time I know that you've got enough success stories coming where you gonna, you're gonna have a life full of those guys. Yeah. Coming back around to you. So yeah. So tell me a little bit about what your, what are your goals from here? Other than writing a book, which that's unenviable to Yeah. It's like one of those things start a business. You love fighting, you start a gym and all of a sudden you're like, now I have no time to fight cuz I'm running a business. <laugh>. Yeah. The book is the same thing as a man. That's a, that's a time consumption deal. Okay. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:43:36 I ask about it. Uh, Speaker 2 00:43:37 Well I happy we'll sit down and, and wrap. I would love to read it though. Yeah. I, I'm not discouraging you. I think it'd be fantastic. What, what other things you have, uh, in the pipeline or that you would like to do up the road? Speaker 0 00:43:49 I like to build, I like one of my, uh, race, uh, goals is one of 'em is I like to build like, kind of like hope farm. I want something like that. I've always wanted something like that for a while. Like a place where kids can come to and do it after school program. I wanted to do it at my old school, but we never got it off, off the ground. I want to do that. And um, I want to do, uh, uh, want to get my podcast back going open. And I wanna do, uh, I really want to travel and do public speaking. Man. I really like people. I like talking and like learn learning from people. I like sharing my testimony, sharing my story. Um, I've done some things, um, a lot, but I like to make that kind of like a global thing. Yeah. I like to be able to travel and do like, also do, uh, martial arts seminars, more of those and things like that. So yeah, that's, those are my long, uh, uh, long-term goals, you know. That's awesome. Speaker 2 00:44:40 Well you'll be great at that. Yeah. I can already tell. You'll be great at that. Speaker 0 00:44:43 I hope so. Thank you <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:44:45 So, um, before I get to my, my little caper question, what is, uh, one of the most important lessons that you've drawn from your youth? So I, I didn't quite get that transition period, you know, as you got outta jail and you were still kind of acting a fool, but then you started fighting and in the ring and things just came together and you took your own path. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. What is, what is something that you can take forward that maybe somebody could relate to as the greatest lesson from your youth? Speaker 0 00:45:14 Um, the greatest lesson, um, from my youth is that I would say to, it's okay. And I know it's gonna be hard for people understand, especially when you are young, it's okay to, um, be yourself. I know that sounds cliche right? But it's really okay to like not have to be something else because you're trying to make it in life is to, is to really be yourself and find out truly who you are and your path and, and, and be yourself. And just say that you don't have to be like those kids. You don't have to go around these kids or be these kids to be cool, to be secure, to be helped, just really, um, be yourself and that create, um, a strong man. Yeah. You know, uh, being yourself a create strong man. I, I would say that I'm strong now just because I worked hard to be and desired to be that. Speaker 0 00:46:10 But I would say from the youth man, which is a lot of kids, I seen it growing up, being in schools, kids getting bullied, um, you know, being traumatized from home and things like that. And just, um, so it kind of creates like, um, insecurities and uh, lack of self-confidence and um, which that's hard to not, that's hard to get by when you're that young. But I would say, you know, the biggest li le lesson I learned was like, you know, um, if I could have just like, cuz I had an idea of what I wanted to do, but I just decided I wanted to do this cause I thought it was cool. And I just think just, um, being yourself and finding out who you are early. Um, Speaker 2 00:46:51 Yeah. And as a kid you're kind of alone in doing that. You really are. You don't, you do something nerdy, you're a nerd. It's actually okay to be a nerd. Look at me. Yeah. It's okay <laugh>, right? Speaker 3 00:46:59 Hey, you don't, you don't realize until you're older Yeah. That you don't have to care what other people think. No. And if kids knew that younger, you're right, they could be themselves. They don't have to feel like they have to follow the crowd or do everything to fit in because when you graduate high school, you're never gonna see those people again. Speaker 0 00:47:15 I tell my son this, it doesn't matter. That same thing you just said as what I told my son. Um, because my son, like he, you know, we would have talks and I would tell him, you know, hey, it's okay to be this because I was a kid that was wanting to do this and wanting to do this and end up almost costing me my freedom for my life and in my life. And so when he was coming up, I would always try to instill things in his brain, in his head. Like, Hey man, you're perfect how you are. I'm watching you. I'm seeing what kind of young man you are. And just like you said, I would tell my son the kids, cuz my son's a golfer. Um, it got his PGA card and all that good stuff. He's a teacher and everything. I would tell him, you know, cuz at first as you're young, you think, oh man, golf ain't that cool. Speaker 0 00:48:04 My hey just those kids that are playing and making fun, not being funny, but let's just see where they're at later on. Right. When you graduate from high school, you're not even gonna talk to these kids as they don't talk to most of the kids. Yeah. And we're gonna see where you at? Graduate college, Kum Laude, you know, got his own place on Carter. He paid for, you know, working at the golf course, teaching lessons, doing his thing. Never been in trouble in a day in his life. No. You know, no. No felonies never been in jail. Never. No, no. Nothing. Hell, I don't even know if he even had a ticket ever. You know? But, you know, but, you know, um, but that's, that was me saying, you know, I see a lot, I saw a lot of myself and my son and being in that way, like, you know, wanting to fit in and being that. And then I was like, man, you know, thank God that I was able to get him early enough, um, to where I could talk with him and have a good, steer him, speak with him. Steer. Yeah. And then, and um, and I attribute a lot of that to his mother too. You know, his mom being who she was and where she was as a woman, standing strong with him as well. Yeah. So, you know, I give her a, a lot of the credit for a lot of that stuff too. Speaker 2 00:49:09 Well, it's difficult as you're young. I mean, you think high school is it, especially you're a sophomore, you're aspiring to do something by your senior year, whatever all your goals have to do with that. And then you go, you get old, old like me and you go back to these reunions. Yeah. And a lot of these fools will just go to these reunions because it's the glory days. Right. They're coming back to visit the glory days. Like glory days. Right. High school's horrible. Yeah. I'm just curious to see how these people turned out, you know? Yeah. But some of these other folks are coming back to get back into the celebratory state. Speaker 0 00:49:40 Ain that crazy. Speaker 2 00:49:40 I used to be so popular and whatever. It just makes Speaker 0 00:49:42 No sense. That's the same thing I see in the gang culture. And me and my buddy Trent Rose, which Trent Rose is the guy who started the Bloods out here. You know, me and him, one of my best friends we talked about the other day that a lot of the guys that we see that we was around coming up with around that they all they still have to talk about is that is the glory days of being from where they're from. Truman Street, right. Of where they're from and the gangs and stuff like that. And that's all they get to talk about. You'll see it a lot in interviews and stuff like that. And it's like, I don't wanna say it's sad being disrespectful, but it is in a sense because I see a lot of goodness and greatness in these guys. But that's, they never was able to kind of like, manifest anything past step Speaker 2 00:50:32 Outta that, that Speaker 0 00:50:33 Character, that that character and that and that mindset. So that's the only things I have to talk about. So it's the same thing with that, you know? Yeah. Speaker 2 00:50:40 That's a shame too. And that's, I I think it's never too late. I mean, obviously you get older, you've kind of set in your ways in a lot of ways, but Yes. Yes. Man, there's so much opportunity these days to just take a left turn and go do it. Yeah. I Speaker 0 00:50:51 Mean it, yeah. I did it. I did it. You know, um, when my son was born, like a light switch went off, I was like, dang, you know? And I, I'm looking at him, you know, I'm as his little face. I'm like, mm, I can't be doing this. But I didn't, I still didn't really learn my lesson cause I was too young. You Speaker 2 00:51:12 Considered it. Speaker 0 00:51:13 Yeah. That's, yeah. I was like, but it, it took a while. It took a while. It took a long time. And what people don't understand is that this is a thing I tell about people get in trouble. It takes like a short time to get in trouble, but it takes a long time to get out. And I tell people that all the time. It, it, it, it takes a long time to get out, man. I mean, and, and, and, and this stuff, you cannot be in trouble for years. But this stuff can still haunt you well into your late forties and forties and stuff for the mistakes and choices that you make as a young man. You're not knowing that when you're doing it because you're being a part of what you're being a part of. Yep. You know, so that's another thing. That's the stuff that's not taught to you. So when you get to that certain age, you're like, damn man, now I can't get this. I can't get this, you know, your credit shots. No one's telling us the stuff about Right. G having good credit or these kind of things. None of that was told to me. So Speaker 2 00:52:01 You're even taking pleas on little deals, you know, man talked to Jay Jordan for a while. Who, who? Politics for those types of things to lift. Right. A lot of those penalties after you've been out and been successful. Like, let us do things. Let us work around kids. That's right. I mean, that would've ruined your opportunity to work in schools. Speaker 0 00:52:18 Right. You Speaker 2 00:52:20 Know, seriously. I mean, that would be the, that would be a tragedy. Right. You know, because of how fantastic you are with kids. That would be a tragedy. Right. If you screwed up something when you were 20 that got you a felony that turned into something where now it's prohibitive forever. Right. I mean that's, that's, that's the saddest song ever. Cuz you could, you're helping so many people, so, right. Speaker 0 00:52:40 Yeah. That's the truth. Honest to God. True. Speaker 2 00:52:42 All right, so lastly, since you have so many other things in common, I feel like we have so much in common, and not just that we look alike, but did we have other stuff? Speaker 0 00:52:51 <laugh>? I was thinking that too. I was like, man, we gotta be related somewhere down the line. I Speaker 2 00:52:55 Always have to change the lights in the room. Johnny's I was complaining cuz I was like, could you have some yellow light? Cuz it's like gonna glare like you're putting the sun in your eyes or something. Uh, but what kind of music are you into? And and how much of a, uh, how much did music influence, uh, your behavior on the good or bad side or whatever? Speaker 0 00:53:12 Dude, I mean, I've always been pretty strong in that sense, but I know like when I was going through certain things and I was moving a certain way and I was going to a certain place, I knew what kind of like song to put on. You know what I mean? Or what kind of song to put on. As I got older, I knew, uh, I got to a point where it didn't bother me. I can just listen to any music all day. Nothing bothered. Pleasure meet Mature. Mature. Yeah. Um, I like, uh, I like hip hop man. I like r and b, a lot of r and b. I'm a, um, you know, well Speaker 2 00:53:40 Those are both super broad. Like Yeah, hip hop is been in existence for a long time. It's an r and b for sure too. Yeah. So what kind of, what kind of, uh, eras are you talking about? Speaker 0 00:53:49 Oh man. Eighties, r and b. Okay. My favorite era, you know, um, 90, uh, eighties, nineties rap. My favorite era, you know. Okay. Yeah. So like, um, now, now that, you know, cause I got my son and I got a lot of guys. I, I like listening to some of the new guys too. I like the new beats cause I like music. I like instruments. Like I played drums too. People didn't know that played drums in school, middle school. But, uh, I told you Speaker 2 00:54:14 We're between brothers. See, Speaker 0 00:54:16 See, and I, so I like, I like, um, some of the new stuff. Um, some of it's a little bit much for me. Uh, some of the stuff that that, that they're saying or talking about. So I try not to get too, too close to that. But yeah, man, I like the eighties. R and b nineties, R and b era. Uh, big time, you know. And I like seventies stuff cause I grew up on it. Uh, my mom, you know, cleaning in the house, listening to Marvin Gaye, Isley Brothers, you know what I'm saying? So Gladys Knight, all these people. Um, you know, Teddy Pendergrass, I grew up with a lot of these kind of old school. So I'm, I like a lot of old school media Speaker 2 00:54:52 And then all the way into Luther and everybody too. I Speaker 0 00:54:54 Love Luther Vandross one of my favorite artists of all time. I love Prince. I love all those guys. <laugh> Speaker 2 00:54:59 Man, prince is, was so underappreciated until he passed away. Oh Speaker 0 00:55:02 Yeah. That's crazy. He's the best, one of the best artists ever lived. We Speaker 2 00:55:05 Used to cover stuff from his first record that most people can't even find. Yeah. We cover all this stuff and it's all him playing all the instruments and Yeah. Dudes, dudes sick. So Speaker 0 00:55:13 Yeah. I like it, man. Um, some of this new stuff is, is it is, it's interesting. You know, <laugh>, it's rough. Um, you get to listening to what they're, uh, really saying and stuff, it's tough. Um, a little bit tough for me to like swallow so much, but I do like some of the new stuff. But, um, not a whole bunch of it. Speaker 2 00:55:30 Do you sometimes feel old when you say that? Like, this is the same stuff that your parents used to preach because Yeah, because it, I don't even think it's cultural. Yeah. I just think it's kids. Yeah. You know, when I was coming up in the eighties and listening to, uh, satanic Metal. Yeah. You know, when you're, the adults are like, eh, they don't worship Satan. Right. Everybody knows that that's, it's a thing. Right. But it was a thing that freaked parents out. Yeah. Uh, at the time. Yeah. So, and kids take it differently. Mm-hmm. Speaker 0 00:55:56 <affirmative>. Um, yeah, because man, um, it's not that I forget my age, but I guess cuz um, I'm 46, but I, I just don't look as old as a lot of guys around my age. So sometimes I forget and I'm still active and stuff, so sometimes I forget, you know, and I'm around a lot of, I'm around some of the young people cuz I train 'em and coach 'em. So I hear a lot of the music and stuff like that. Yeah. But, um, some of it's catchy, but yeah, I do, I do feel, I do feel a little older now. I'm not gonna lie. I was trying to, I was trying to nod at like, well you look younger so you're good. But no, the reality is, um, looks is one thing. And then the reality of the the age is different. Speaker 2 00:56:32 I just, you know, I just meant you kind of, you, we sound like our parents sometimes. Yeah. I always feel like, man, I'm the old white stiff coming saying such and such. It just sounds like an old man. No. Yeah. But I'm not trying to Yeah, yeah. But you've but it, all this stuff comes with maturity. That perspective comes back. Yeah. Like I said, it would, if we had that perspective when we were 20, how successful it would be. It's just, I can't even measure that man. Really. If you had that kind of maturity. So, Speaker 0 00:56:55 And you what kind of music? Music? Speaker 2 00:56:58 Yeah. Oh shoot man, it's all over the place. I, I love, uh, I love some good funk. You talking about Isley Brothers and stuff like that. Oh, I love Earth, wind and Fire, stuff like that. Yes sir. I came up on a lot of that stuff. Um, I mean even Frankie Beverly and Maze and all that kinda stuff. So I came through all that stuff. I, I, you know, I coming up playing a bands. I was the white kid playing with these older cats. Yeah. That took me to all these urban clubs and stuff and played. Yeah. But when I wasn't even old enough to, so, you know, the keyboard player showing me actually teaching me what groove is, you know, you play a beat. I'm talking about Guru, this is how it sits in there, you know, all that stuff. So I, I still adore stuff that grooves and I got into a lot of rock. And then after I, I got through the eighties and got into college age. I came up here is what moved me up here. I've studied music at North Texas and I got Do you listen Speaker 0 00:57:46 To hiphop at all? Speaker 2 00:57:48 I do listen to hiphop plenty. Yeah. And my son got, got me into more of the modern stuff, which isn't as modern now. It's not gangster rap stuff necessarily. But, um, yeah, I mean, Kendrick Lamar is one of my, one of my favorites. I think he's, he has a lot to say. Yeah. And is so creative the musically, it's so creative and experimental and stuff. So I, you know, I, I can, who doesn't Speaker 0 00:58:09 Like Kendrick? Man? I like Kendrick. Speaker 2 00:58:11 Yeah. So I, I love anybody that's, that's, uh, that's goes somewhere else. Right. You know? And it's hard to find these days. There's a lot of new music rap with Speaker 0 00:58:22 Rap with a message. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:58:24 I know. Look, I know this, that sounds old too conscious hip hop. But even the stuff I write is, you know, whether it be, uh, some of the rapper stuff where got a guest rapper or it's my own stuff, it's still kind of conscious too. It's all has a, a message that Gotcha. You know, whether it's telling a story, a tragic story or something. A conversation starter. Right. And I love thought-provoking music. Yeah. And again, I can even take some of the crazy stuff if I know it's supposed to be thought-provoking as opposed to insight, insight in some kind of, you know. Yeah. Getting you all jacked up for no reason. But, um, yeah. And I used to like even, uh, when I was my, my fishbowl days, I used to like cranking up dirty worms there group outta Austin. That's a, Speaker 0 00:59:04 Uh, alternative Speaker 2 00:59:06 Yeah. Speaker 0 00:59:07 Alternative Speaker 2 00:59:07 Rap group. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Smack, uh, smacky Stallone. Yeah. Yeah. Down there. And, and they used to talk about full clips and shooting and stuff, but they were talking about lyrics Right. All the time. So I loved how they paralleled all that stuff. Right. Where you're basically slinging the same kind of spit. Right. But without being literal about killing people. Right. You're killing them on the stage cuz you're rap battling or whatever. And so that kind of idea was kind of cool too. And they just put a lot of, they had a lot of really talent I positions in there. Speaker 0 00:59:37 They was, I forgot about dirty worms man. They were really popular. Yeah. They were Speaker 2 00:59:41 Real popular. They regionally for sure. Yeah. And I know he did some stuff with, uh, well I'm gonna forget. I think I Speaker 0 00:59:47 Had my ex brother-in-law actually, uh, opened up for them. Oh yeah. Yeah. He was in a Barron, Carl Mad Mexicans and they Yeah, he played a good guitar. Yeah. I think they opened up for them up in Austin. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:59:58 Yeah. So it's just a, yeah, a wrap. Rock excursion, man. It was awesome. Awesome stuff. So. Well man, it's an honor to chat with you online. I'm sure we're gonna chat more offline. Oh yeah. I'm sure I'll kick myself for not asking you a bunch of more things, but, uh, as we spend more time, man, I'm always here for you if you do need anything. Yeah, Speaker 0 01:00:15 Likewise. Speaker 2 01:00:16 And so, uh, you know, it's an honor to have you here and thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure you're gonna affect a lot of people with their message, man. Yeah. I Speaker 0 01:00:22 Appreciate you, uh, allowing me to come, man. That's been an honor. You know, I've been, been wanting to meet you for a while, so I, I, I, um, I'm glad that I was able to able to do this. So you Speaker 2 01:00:32 Got that out the way and we got this out the way. Yeah, Speaker 0 01:00:34 No doubt. Alright my Speaker 2 01:00:35 Friend. All Speaker 0 01:00:36 Right. Thank you. Speaker 4 01:00:37 What's it take? What you going to do? Do what you gonna do Success around. Watch the second grade rules accompany to make you do, Speaker 1 01:00:51 Make Speaker 4 01:00:53 What they want. What Speaker 1 01:00:54 They want Speaker 4 01:01:00 Is the one to see you through. Don't let those that that sweet take a little honey from the money. But don't Speaker 1 01:01:16 The pool, Speaker 4 01:01:23 The game soul, soul Speaker 1 01:01:33 Lies Speaker 4 01:01:33 Between glory. If you.