Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: It's not PC to say this, but Ukraine was super corrupt when I was there. The people were awesome. I'm not saying that the government isn't worth helping or the fight against the Russia isn't worth supporting. I'm just saying that place was corrupt. As when I was there, I got robbed by customs. On the way out, the customs agents, they went through all my stuff. They took a bunch of my money, they took a bunch of stuff that I bought. They told me I wasn't going to fly. Then they rushed my onto that plane at the last second because they didn't want me stuck there with no flight. That's even worse because then it's like, okay, I guess I got to go to the US Embassy and tell them exactly what happened, right? And this guy was like, don't you think it's a little ethnocentric to say we have a better system of government than places like Iran and North Korea? And I was like, no. And I was like, have you ever visited a place that has a hostile government where the people are afraid of the government? Have you ever? And he's like, no. I encourage you to get a visa and go to Iran. This is years ago, right? You are going to find out that you are free in the, in Alabama or Idaho or wherever you live.
It is not even close.
But when I started doing security at the dangerous places, I learned a lot about de escalation. I learned a lot about like, violence because you see a lot of real violence when you work at a dangerous place like that. You see people get shot, you see people do like curbside beatdowns that are just severe. This was like, that guy's never. Is he alive? Like he just got stomped so hard by seven people.
He's got. He's dead.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: My next guest is a true Renaissance man.
An ex computer hacker, a world traveler of authoritarian countries, speaks five languages, was kidnapped twice, once in Mexico, once in Serbia, has experience in securities work with high end clients as an attorney on Wall Street. Started as far back as 2006 a podcast based on relationship building and became known as a relationship expert.
About five years ago, he started a brand new podcast and has since, with Pure Hustle, built this thing to 6 million downloads a month, interviewing everyone from world leaders to athletes to artists to Nobel prize winners.
This guy has a story to tell. Yes, but he is a dude with the same types of feelings that we all have. But as you know, we all want to learn from somebody who's been around the world and back 80 times. Like this cat. So without further ado, please help me in welcoming to the podcast my good friend, Mr. Jordan Harbinger.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: I went to Lake Tahoe, and I was like, I really want ice cream. And the kids were good. Let's get some ice cream sundaes. Where are we going to get that? Room service has. It's probably going to be like 100 bucks. Whatever. It'll be a treat. So I order room service, and they're like, what toppings do you want on your three scoops of ice cream? And I was like, what are my options? They're like gummy bears, bananas, berries, whipped cream. And I was like, how much are these? And they're like, well, the ice cream is like 13 bucks per scoop. And I'm like, geez, something crazy. It might have been like 10 bucks or something.
And then they're like, but the toppings are free. And I was like, give me all of the toppings. And they're like, okay. So it was 27 bucks total for so. Oh, wait, sorry. It was. The scoops were $8 each, but then there was like a six. They ended up being $27 total.
So, like, three scoops is marginally more expensive than.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Minus the facility.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: And then they brought in this, like, huge cart, and everything was on a separate plate. And they like peanut butter and Nutella and whipped cream and the, like, a centerpiece that looked like a swan. And the ice cream. And the guy came in with, like, the. The metal thing, and he was like, all right, guys, are you ready for this? And he was like.
And the kids were like, yeah.
And I'm like, well, that's room.
Meanwhile, this guy was like, hey, here's your stupid fucking salad. You're not getting a fork either, bitch. You know? And I was like, okay, so I'm eating this, like, sad salad with no fork.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: And I was just like, okay, if you're gonna rip me off, like, make it make me feel like, well, okay, I got.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: Right. No, I completely agree. I mean, that's the whole. With any business, I think if you're not over serving, then you're missing the boat anyway. That's the whole point. Yeah, it's like too many people just try to just match what they say and try to save every penny. Dude, just overserve and it comes back.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah, over, over deliver. Like, it's not gonna. And plus, if I'm. If I'm happy, then it's like, well, now I want to tip all your employees heavy duty because they are killing it. For me, even. Even, like, the place is just poorly managed. Like, you can't leave this on the show. Right. But like, the place. Poorly. This morning I go and I order a coffee and I'm like, it says $9. This is 18 bucks. She's like, oh, I don't know. And then the guy's like, oh, I made you a double latte. And I was like, well, I asked for a single latte. You're charging me five extra bucks for it. And then there's tax, and then there's a service charge, and then there's a breakfast surcharge on top of that, which you Pay, which is 20%. So I was like, yeah, no, I'm not paying that. And he's like, okay. And I'm like, no, no, you don't have to throw the latte away. I'll drink it. But you're going to adjust the price to what it says on the menu. And he was like. Which is what he.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: That should have been his decision.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Because I'm not going to go throw this away and bring you a single.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Go ahead and keep this if you like. Unless you don't want it.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So then she's like, huffing and, like, adjust the bill. And I'm like, I'm. I'm gonna sit through the pressure and awkwardness of you doing this because I don't care. You. You are knowingly trying to screw me. I'm gonna sit here and be like. And then when the thing comes and it's like, additional gratuity, it's like big.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Old X and you have to be a dick.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: You just.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah, because they should totally handle this.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Because when. Whenever we're at some place and they make any error at all, I love when they're like. They don't say anything, but they come out and you look at the builder like, wow, they didn't even charge me for half that stuff because. Whatever. And then I'll tip them according to what it would have been, right?
[00:06:17] Speaker A: 100. Always.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: And it's like, dude, if you're trying to eke out an extra two bucks because you overcharged me on this, and then, therefore, the service charges higher. Therefore the. Like, I'm just gonna be annoyed and put 0 on the additional gratuity line. Like, what? You. Some people might not pay attention. You've been getting away with this for so long that this is your game, but, like, not today.
And then when the hotel's like, how was your stay? I'm gonna be like, it Was okay, but your staff ripped me off three times, and. And I'm never coming back because there's a million hotels in L. A.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: And that's the main thing, is that you won't return. I mean, like I said they could. They're not going to lose money on you.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: No.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: I mean, it could say, hey, you can eat free all weekend. You're going to lose money.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Right? No, Exactly. And the other thing is, like, you have, like, you stay in a lot of hotels, you probably have, like some status or something, and it's like, do you want to tell your titanium status people that they should go to any other place in L. A? Because you are in the business of making everything kind of stupidly expensive. Why would you do that?
[00:07:14] Speaker B: Right?
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Like, what's, what's the idea?
[00:07:16] Speaker B: And unless they just say, hey, it's stupidly expensive, but if you sign up for our program, then it'll be cheap, but they've lost their trust by then again.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: And like, to your earlier point, I don't even mind overpaying. It's a no. Like, okay, you overpay for stuff at hotels. Just make it awesome.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: And then it's like, part of the trip. Not like this. There's difference. Right. There's like Ritz Carlton overpaying, where you're like, this was too expensive, but, man, that was cool. Like the Disneyland overpaying. And then there's airport overpaying where you're like, are you fucking kidding me? This is an $8 diet coke and it's in a can. Like, I'm just offended now and I.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Still have to sit around in the standing room, only cramped little whatever.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: So it's like, don't make it, like, make it Disney overpaying.
Don't make it airport overpaying.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: Because I have a. I don't have a choice if I'm going to fly out of San Francisco. I have a choice if I'm going to stay in la.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: So, like, you're. You lose every time.
Long term. I don't know. Anyway, that's not why I'm here.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: No. But I mean, it's actually kind of parallels a lot of it because you are a, you know, you're an entrepreneur and your business cat, and those principles don't carry over as much as people would think.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: You know, not only do people think entrepreneurship is, like, a given, that anybody could do it, that. But they also don't. Don't understand the pressure of trying to do.
Trying to work or provide beyond the expectation what it is, and it's the extra effort. And then they start thinking, well, where's the value in it for me? But, like, that's down the road, fool. I mean, you're not making your first buck on day one anyway.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. And in fact, I want to write down that airport overpaying idea. You can edit this out of the final copy.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: I think it's a great idea.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Airport overpaying versus Disney overpaying.
This is how I come up with LinkedIn ideas for my LinkedIn posts. I'm like, whining about something to a friend, and I'm like, that might. That's actually kind of a clever thing that this person just said. Or like. And I'm like, I'm gonna rearrange that and make it sound like I thought of it. It is.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: No, it is. It's a great analogy. Yeah, you're gonna overpay in the airport every single time. But, yeah, you're stuck there.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: But you're stuck there. So they. That's how they get you. Right. But, like, I don't know why this is lost on other plate. Like, you are a random hotel in Beverly Hills. You are not Disney. You don't get to dictate how ridiculous this is going to be.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:31] Speaker A: And I don't know, I just. I just find it so obnoxious that businesses do that. And people should be more.
People should be. Should complain more about this or, like, enforce what they're counting on is that it's too awkward for you to go, I'm not paying for this. Readjust the bill. Because most people won't do that.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: They'll just go in a hotel where they know you can damn sure afford it because you're there.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: Right. Like, I could basically feel this woman going, this guy is paying however many hundred dollars per night, and he won't pay 18 bucks for a cup of coffee. And it's like, I real. I'm paying for the value of the room. You're not giving me any additional value. I like $9 for a coffee. I was already like, damn. But when you're doubling it with nonsense. No, not today. Not today.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Golly, that's so frustrating. And then that follows you because you get a stigma because you're, you know, you're somebody that somebody might recognize. Oh, man. And then the next thing you see is somebody, well, this doesn't even tip. Which is not even true.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Not true.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: You know, but you would get that.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: You know, which is the insult to Injury.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: I have to think about that stuff. So I'll. I'll tell you a little trick.
Sometimes I have my either wife, assistant, producer, like, go and handle everything like that for me, you know, and disassociate. Yes. Because then it's like, Jordan Harbinger came here and he. They didn't tip. Oh, he didn't tip well, actually, it was like his assistant or like somebody who paid the bill. And that way I can be like, I had no idea. Meanwhile, I'm like, you do not. This was terrible service. But I, I usually. I will also talk to the man if it's bad, bad. Like, I'm talking to the manager about that stuff.
There's a part of me, and it's probably the part of me that wanted to go to law school. I won't say I like conflict because I don't think a healthy person does, but there's a part of me that's like, I'm a little bit of a Karen, where I'm like, I'm not going to get an employee in trouble for something that's not their fault or whatever. In fact, even if something is their fault, sometimes I'm like, this person doesn't need extra stress today. I try to be really compassionate about that. But like, when they're like, how was your stay? I am going to mention the nonsense on every little part of the bill and be like, you guys are pennywise pound foolish.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Well. And as a business owner, that's valuable, actually.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: You would think.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you would hope. I mean, because otherwise, if they're insulted because you're nitpicking at things. I mean, like, I always tell people, like, how am I supposed to fix something that I don't know exists?
[00:11:55] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: So you got to have this manager that you talk to has no clue that you rip.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: That's right. And people will say like, oh, I don't want to be annoying, but, like, this function of your website doesn't work well. And I'm like, thank you. Why didn't anybody else tell that I got to fix that. You're right. This is so janky and annoying. Or like, someone will say like, I know you have to market, but this popup on mobile covers my whole screen. And I'm like, what? And then I'm like, oh, this is crap. I got to remove that right away. No one can use the website and you're grateful for it. That's how I found out about a problem. So I'm always grateful for that kind of feedback.
And I. I I feel like businesses often, they, they are like, you get, you know, you get those, you stay at a hotel and you get that, that email that comes back that's like, we're curious about your stay. I'm. I'll be like, chad, GPT write three paragraphs about the following annoying things. And then I'll just, I'll dictate it right. While I'm driving or, or something. And then it writes this really nice long email and I'll send that to the manager. And they're kind of like, nobody ever replies to this email. Thank you. This is really interesting. And you know what, What I found to be. To be quite interesting is sometimes I'll get an email from like, if you stay in a nice brand, especially.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: In Lake Tahoe or something. We, we stayed, we used a bunch of points and we stayed at like a Ritz Carlton, like, oh, very fancy. Right? And I'm not, I don't usually roll.
You know, you got a bunch of points. You got your family with you. I'm gonna do it.
And I remember being like. They were like, how was your stay? And I was like, you know, this was confusing and this seems like it just cost too much. And the guy goes, huh, I'm just gonna remove all these. And it was like $380 worth of charges. And I was like, you don't have to remove every breakfast because they had. Oh, they had charged my kids for the breakfast buffet. And my kids are 3 and 6, so they ate like three blueberries in a pancake.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: And I was like, that cost me 70 bucks per day. And the guy's like, that's not cool. I'm. No, that's ridiculous. I was like, do you. I can't get her to eat more than this. Yeah, that cost me $70 per day. Like, he, he was like, I got kids. There's no. I'm just not. I can't like make. I'm not making you pay this. That's insane.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And you weren't even asking to take it off.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: I wasn't. I was like, can you cut this in half? Cuz the kids, like, barely. And he was like, I'm not making your kids pay at all. So I was like, I told my wife, I go, we're obviously staying here whenever we can because that was awesome.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: And, and yes, they. Some. Somebody's like, oh my God, they cut 370 bucks off your bill or whatever it ended up being for the whole time. And I'm like, yeah, but they're they're gonna make thousands of dollars off of me in the future because I will never think I'm going to get ripped off at this place. It's never going to happen. I will always see it.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Half of it's making it easy too. You just don't. You. If you can be guaranteed no hassle, you'll spend the extra money.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: You want to be there with your family. You don't have to apologize for going to a ritzy whatever. The fact is you get to go there and focus on what you want to focus on and know that everything's handled.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Why would you, why would you risk anywhere else?
[00:14:38] Speaker A: It's really cool to see what high end brands do and I try to bring some of this into my business. I mean, look, I run a podcast, so it's different than running the Mandarin Oriental or something. But like you go to a nice brand and they'll have like for the same hotel, they have s' mores every day at 4pm outside there's a fire pit and it's like on the ski slope and you just go there and they're not like, what room are you in? So we can bill you 20 bucks for Graham crackers and chocolate and marshmallows. It's just quote unquote free with your ridiculously expensive hotel stay. But they just don't care about that kind of thing. But you go to like a medium tier thing and it's like, oh, yeah, we gotta charge you for this.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: For the lobby coffee?
[00:15:19] Speaker A: Yeah, for the lobby coffee. Like, oh, you want to use the gym? Well, there's a surcharge here and it's just, it's really crappy. It's a crappy thing to do. What I noticed another other clever brands do is that, and I saw this in Vegas, there's like destination fees or something or resort fees and they have to charge these, I think by law, which is annoying.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Is there a tax or something?
[00:15:40] Speaker A: It's got to be, it's gotta be.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Something like tax or something.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: So what good brands do is they go, you are being charged a $70 destination fee. However, we're converting that to on property credit. So you can use it for anything from room service to breakfast to anything else that we have in the hotel. It can't be used for gratuities because that's like a cash thing, I guess.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Sound like fair enough. So, so it converts into actual money that you can use to buy things from them that cost them basically nothing.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: It's also transparency that.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: Yes. And so you go, oh, you're basically turning the tax I had to pay into credit on your. Like, that makes you feel like it's a good brand. Whereas other places in Vegas are just kind of like, screw you, pal. You decided to come stay here. You got to pay the fees. Don't look at me. I don't make the rules.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially in Vegas.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Come on, dude. There's a reason why they, they should. They should make it more inviting. Same with the airport. There's nothing wrong with having a restaurant in an airport that totally kicks ass on service to where people are like, dude, I'm gonna come to the airport early because I know I can go watch my call.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: That's right. Detroit did that. Well, they remodeled the airport.
And then I want to say they made a law that was like, you can't overcharge more than a certain amount above, like, you can pay.
I. I'm gonna get this wrong. But they made some rule where it basically has to be the same pricing plus, whatever, 15% as it does outside the airport. So you don't go to the airport and pay 2x what it costs to eat at a restaurant. You just pay at, like, you pay the same amount plus whatever, like it costs them to run at the airport. Now, the businesses hated this, right? Because they were like, oh, my God, it's gonna be so expensive. We're gonna lose money and all the businesses are gonna leave. Well, they didn't because they have a captive market anyway at the airport. So it just turns out that you can eat for a reasonable price at Detroit's airport. And. And businesses hated that. And it's like, well, too, too bad.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: And especially if it's a chain, I mean, it's almost, you know, a loss leader is fine, but you're right. Spreading the brand.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Whatever. It's all it.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah. You're going to force me to try Ike sandwiches. Oh, I actually like these. Maybe I'll go to one. Maybe I'll take my dad here when I get home. So I agree with you. It's a lot of this is short term thinking, which is really bad in business. And it's really bad economically. And unfortunately, like, America is plagued by this. Right? We're looking at tomorrow's stock price. We're looking at this four year term. This, this period. Businesses are always looking at short term stuff. And it's just not. It's not good. I learned. It's funny because I learned this lesson when I was like a teenager. I was selling something on Ebay.
And I mailed it to this guy and he was a power seller, which I think are super seller, whatever it was, where you have, like 19,000 ratings. Because he basically, his job was like, selling shoes on ebay, right? And he was like, hey, I'm really disappointed in this.
You didn't include the right cable. And I was like, I honestly don't even know. I didn't know that. And he's like, look, the right thing to do. You sound young. The right thing to do is to refund this and I can mail it back to you, less shipping. And I was like, just. Just get rid of it. It's. That's not something I'm gonna use.
Just get rid of it. And he's like, I refunded him. And he goes, you did the right thing.
Remember this lesson for a while, because this is how good businesses are run. He's like, I would always do business with you again.
And I was just like, it felt kind of good to do the right thing when I could have ripped this dude off by accident. And then on purpose once he told me, I suppose. But then also, like, my reputation and integrity is intact. And I was like, huh? So if I did have a business doing this, because he gave me a good review, he's like, this didn't work out, but the guy's honest.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: And I was like, you got some kind of bump.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it was weird. And it was like, whoa. That felt surprisingly good.
So I learned that lesson really early to just like, kind of not screw people. And it feels good to operate that way. I could have made. I often think about this, like, in media, the best way to make money is to be a dishonest peddler of lies. That. That pander to either the extreme right or the extreme left in the United States.
But that. I just find it hard. What's that phrase? Like, you lie down with dogs, you get fleas. There's kind of no way to become a right or left wing shill and pander to an extremist audience without also kind of becoming a piece of shit in the process.
I don't. At least I don't think I could do it.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think that's because you're one of the normal cats in the. In the middle that may or may not agree with someone on my side of the table, but we're all in the middle. So, yeah, when you're dealing with these extreme people, then that's. That's half the problem. And these. And these people that start those businesses and try to pander to that feel like that's a prominent part of the population, when in reality it's. It's only the people that show up in this media because they're the most sensationalized, but they're not the majority.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: It's an ill. I forget there's a name for this. It's. I think it's called the majority illusion or something like that. To your, to your point where you, you, you're like, wow, all these people must hate Jews. Because look at all the rhetoric around it. Then you look, there's a lot of anti Semitism. I'm trying to minimize that. I just did an episode on it. Yeah, but if you took a slice of real life people, like actual people in real life, the percentage is much, much lower. There's a guy named Todd Rose who I'm doing a show with and he did a bunch of political research that was something like stated preferences, stated versus actual preferences. And usually this is a marketing thing where they're like, oh, people say they want smaller, more efficient cars, but what they do is they buy bigger, more masculine looking, more luxurious cars that do guzzle gas. So they don't really want. That's an example. I don if that's true or not.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Some kind of conscience issue. It's.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: So that example is kind of bunk because I just made it up. Right. But his research is people say things like, yeah, we don't want this, or we want that, or we want this extreme position we don't want. But then when you actually are able to pull them in a way that controls for that, they're like, yeah, I don't really, I don't really want to deport everybody who's here. Some people have a, you know, need to be here for safety reasons. Like you pull people on immigration or economics, and if they're virtue signaling, they'll virtue signal in the direction that they think people want to hear. But when you control for that, they're like, well, no, I don't really want that.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Well, that actually gives you hope.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: It does.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: Because otherwise you would just think ignore the extreme. Because all the effort that you give in order to educate people and bring them into a good conversation, everything you kind of have to just.
I don't know about you, but I just, I pick a group of people that I kind of ignore because I can't really expend the energy to try to pull somebody that's on the extreme right or extreme left into this conversation. There's too much energy for the purpose behind it, which is to bring these other people and give them an opportunity.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Yeah, there are far more people in the center. The thing is we. And I say we because I'm more centrist too. We're just not as loud. Like, look, I am. Cause I got a microphone in front of me and I run the Jordan Harbinger show. But most people who are in the center, politics is not our whole personality. So like, and you can always tell, like, I'll talk to somebody on Reddit, for example, and they'll be like, well, this this and this and this and Israel this and Gaza that and immigration this and immigration that and whatever. And I'm like, huh, what's this person like in real life? And I'll go and look at their other comments and posts on Reddit. It's exclusively that. And I'm like, oh, your entire personality is the Israel Arab conflict. Like, this is. You are the guy that your kids don't talk to anymore. No one invites you to Thanksgiving because you can't shut the hell up about this topic and everyone is sick of you. So now you're on Reddit and TikTok talking about it. And it's, it's like if, if you're even indeed a real person, you are absolutely insufferable loser in a loser. But these are the loud voices. So when you. But then you get a room of a thousand normal people, there's only one of those people there. Yeah.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: And it's not sensational. Like I said, they're not going to put this conversation at the, at the head of the news cast. No, I mean, because, hey, I kind of understand your point. I still disagree. But you know, I get where you're coming from. I mean, how much fun is that to watch?
That's an almost wreck.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: So there's the. Speaking of Charlie Kirk. Right. Rest in. Rest in peace. He said a lot of things that were like, very extreme to some people. But what a lot of people. And I spoke about him on my show and I spoke about Jimmy Kimmel and people lost their minds like, you don't care about this and that. And I'm like, I knew Charlie Kirk. He had a lot of opinions that were not. They didn't make the, the tick tock algorithm because nobody got angry when he said it.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: So the stuff that he, like, made someone angry and they had a crazy meltdown or like he said something that's more extreme. That's the stuff that all these are sort of like casual people know about. They don't know that he could also just, like, not talk about politics and go have some sushi. He used to be on my network podcast one. It's like, I actually knew a real. Like, the real version of him that was not on 22nd.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: You knew the human being. Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: And so it was interesting to see people be like, you. Your takes are disgusting. And he was a human. And I'm like, you never knew the guy. I did. You saw 40 clips of him humiliating college students. That wasn't the whole picture. But people play politics like a team sport in this country. That's one of the biggest problems. If people on the extreme right or extreme left make a good point, I want to take that point in and use it myself and talk about it and learn something. A lot of these other folks.
I'm unsubscribing because I hated your. Your take on. On. On Jimmy Kimmel. And I'm like, well, one. It was a guest of mine that had a take on Jimmy Kimmel. I don't have, so. And you're unsubscribe. You listen to the show for years, and you're unsubscribing because you don't like what my guest said about a guy that you didn't know. Okay.
But also, though, here's my theory. Those people aren't fricking unsubscribing. They're saying they are because they're sulking and they're whining. But sure, Jan, you're unsubscribing. Go ahead, lock yourself in your echo chamber even further and see how that works out.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's the problem. And what do they expect from you?
What a boring show it would be to bring people in or share your own opinions that are directly aligned. I mean, what's the. What's the point?
[00:25:40] Speaker A: A bunch of people agreeing with each other like this podcast. No, thank you.
But like, yeah, it's.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: It.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: It just shocks me. I. I don't see politics as a team sport. When. When Charlie Kirk was shot. That was terrible.
When people on. I'm trying to think of, like, when people get deported for no good reason by accident in their US Citizens. That's bad, too. Like, when Jimmy Kimmel's free speech is. Is when he gets government pressure to get taken off the air. That's not how this country is supposed to. Like, I can hold all these things together without any cognitive dissonance.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: It's really not that hard unless you are deifying one side over the other. And it's like, that's just not a winning.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Yeah, because that's the implication is that whatever you bring up with that point, saying, well, the government shutting Kimmel up is kind of a problem.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: Then. Then it appears as though you're already picking a side.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: That's what people said.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: Was there any consternation before you even started talking about it? Were you just like, man, I'm not sure if I should bring this up or are we just compelled to just. I'm say whatever I want.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: I'm gonna say whatever I want. And the thing is, so government pressure to enforce speech or enforce a prohibition on speech that we don't like is bad. It doesn't matter that Jimmy Kimmel is the example for this. It could be.
It could be somebody deplatforming Donald Trump when he's not in power. That's. It's still bad even if you don't like Trump. Just like it was bad when you don't like Jimmy Kimmel. It's bad. It's bad to have the government push people to not be able to speak and use private companies as their own agency or government agencies to try and pressure private company.
That is a textbook unconstitutional use of government authority. And it doesn't matter.
