Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Man. So I, like, I was at Bible college and that's when I figured out all this, like for sure was like, okay, I have to like experience and see if this is what I am. And this is cuz the thoughts were just getting louder and louder. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, it happened while I was at Bible college and they don't really like that there. So I had already been, uh, hurt by a church in the past. Cause I worked at one and my mom was like, we're gonna get you outta here. Let's not do this. Um, so after that I was pretty distraught for a while. That's when all the confusion was coming up. Yeah. But then as I just kept growing and growing into myself and to my own beliefs, I realized there's not one way of life. And it's, I just, it was kind of healing just to be myself and write songs for people like me. You know what I'm saying? It was like healing for myself, but other people heal from it as well. Mm-hmm. And so that was kind of the big thing. Like, I wrote my song, but Jesus loves me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and that's like my little baby that's like, ugh. That's the one I'm like, shoot. Um, it's controversial. It's very controversial. If you wanna get heated, go look at the YouTube comments, like, they're not nice.
Speaker 2 00:01:13 My next guest has many talents, not the least of which is she's a fantastic musician. She plays a number of instruments and is on a trajectory toward massive success in the music industry. But obviously if she's on the T cast, she also has a story to tell and she indeed tells it here. So she has been to a very dark place. She tells us about the dark place and how she managed that dark place and where she is now, and how all those different emotional points of within her life and how she dealt with it, translate to her music. It's a fascinating story. I'm sure you're gonna love it. So join me in welcoming my next guest to the T Cast, Ms. Avery Burke. But a lot of what you put out there has the work around your lifestyle and I think that's what could be considered controversial to some mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And certainly when people politicize all this crap weird. Yeah. And it becomes, well, people politicize it, it it gets completely outta whack. Which Yeah. So part of that, I'd just like to understand how how that came to be. Yeah. And then talk about a little bit about how that ends up being infused into your music and stuff, so, oh, okay. Assuming you grew up here, maybe?
Speaker 0 00:02:23 I did, yes. Um, so my mom is from Fort Worth. My dad is from Dallas. And then we grew up in the middle, um Okay. Like h e b area, mid cities. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah, we kind of, I've always been over here. I was a worship leader too growing up. So that even kind of makes things a little bit more interesting. Okay. Um, so I grew up in that environment, like really, really like, really religious. Okay. Yeah. I was very religious too. I took it very seriously. I, um, I don't know, I just had a very big heart for it and I loved it. And then I grow up and figure out that I'm not straight. And so <laugh> Yeah. The things that
Speaker 2 00:02:57 I, there was a lot big conflict.
Speaker 0 00:02:58 Yeah. And it's, it's crazy because it's like the thing you think is the most right in the world has something like so against what you are, if that makes sense. I don't know if I said that right. But you know what I'm saying? Like Yeah, of course.
Speaker 0 00:03:10 And it's a very confusing thing to figure that out, you know what I'm saying? Um, so it kind of did take me away from that aspect of my life. And then I, I, I think I realized being away from it that I think music was at the heart of all of it, you know, because worship, lead leading and all of that was really how I got better at music. Yeah. And how I could connect with an audience and see, see crowd of people and be like, okay. Kind of read it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like, I don't,
Speaker 2 00:03:37 You're not shunning it.
Speaker 0 00:03:38 No. Yeah. No, no, no. I still believe in God. I still believe that there is a source out there that is good, that is white. Um, but I also think that religion can bring a lot of trauma to people and I think people take it serious to a point that is detrimental, if that makes sense to other people that are different. You
Speaker 2 00:03:54 Think it's a lot about the people that are taking the judgmental role. Yes. Instead of letting it be and everybody dealing with it, playing
Speaker 0 00:04:03 God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Not my job. I don't want the responsibility
Speaker 2 00:04:06 <laugh>. Right. But that's what brings a lot of the guilt and everything else. Yes. Because, you know, and they say, Hey, if, if everything's equal, then everybody has their own set of problems. So it shouldn't, you know, feel any worse than No anybody
Speaker 0 00:04:18 Else feels. So, and that's what I've dealt with a lot, like, was just intense, like guilt and intense shame over a lot of things. And especially like my sexuality and just even anything like I would think, cuz I deal with kind of o c d, depression, anxiety, stuff like that. Um, and so there's the Bible verse, so man thinks he is. So I'm like, okay, so I'm crazy. Like what?
Speaker 2 00:04:35 <laugh> Yes. What do you mean? Like a man think it's no stop.
Speaker 0 00:04:38 No. Yeah. So stop. Like, I would feel guilty even just about my thoughts and like, even just like the thought of wanting to be with girls. I would like, eh, no, no, no, that's gross, that's bad. That's not right. And then I realized like, no, that's not right either. That's yeah. Just be who you are and love who you love. Right. And the people that are supposed to be in your life will accept you and the people that aren't just, you know, it's a determining factor sometimes.
Speaker 2 00:04:58 And there's still people who feel like that is a conscious decision Yeah. In people's part too. Yeah. So is there, is there, has there been any point in which you finally understood that that wasn't the case? Was there or anyone that you've had to try to convince about that scenario where they felt like, why are you making this decision? Sam, Ben tried to counsel you out of it or anything like that?
Speaker 0 00:05:19 I mean, yeah, I definitely, like, I talked to like a parent's friend that had walked out of the, out of the lifestyle, you know what I mean? And I tried to feel better about it until I couldn't feel better until I was living in my truth. You know what I mean? Yeah. Cause I would try to date guys and it'd be uncomfortable. It would just feel like, like if you try to date, you know what I'm saying? Like, if you try to be with a dude, it's like, mm, I don't really like this. Like, I feel stressed out. I'm like, I shouldn't feel stressed to like go hang out with a dude that I'm dating. Right. You know what I'm saying? Or like, for sure. And so I think I, as I walked in my truth, I started to feel more peace about it. Cause I'm like, okay, this is me. This is right for me. Good for you. It doesn't have to be right for anybody else, but it's right for me. Of course. Yeah. And I try, I stopped trying to like, make people believe what I believe because it really doesn't, like, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 00:06:04 Well, and you learned that the hard way that that's impossible anyway, right? It is.
Speaker 0 00:06:07 Yeah. I'm like, if you don't want your mind to change, like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be the one to change it. Like, that's all God and I'm not God. So.
Speaker 2 00:06:13 And living your own truth is a, a much brighter example for other people anyway. Exactly. Because people wanna wanna find out more about, look, you're here because of that <laugh>. There's enough intrigue and interest from my Mayan too. Yeah. So was that attached to a lot of the depression stuff or is that something that you feel like is, is genetic?
Speaker 0 00:06:34 I think it, it kind of has to do with genetics and because like, I think my, my grandma, she dealt with addiction and stuff like that. And so I, I told you I don't drink. So I kind of have some similar things that have come up in me mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I'm not like a full-blown alcoholic or anything. Right. But I can't handle it. And um, so I think it kind of has to just do with what I was dealt. Cause my mom deals with anxiety, kind of my whole, that side of my family deals with that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then my dad's side is super religious. So it's like, it's kind of a weird blend of things that I've <laugh> was born into. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 00:07:04 Has your family been more accepting in over the time? Oh
Speaker 0 00:07:07 Yeah. Get it. My, me and my girlfriend have lived with my parents for a little bit while we get on our feet and they just are so accepting and loving. Awesome. Of
Speaker 2 00:07:14 Us. Awesome. Yeah. And I gotta see an example of how it kinda works. And it's not as bad as you thought probably too, right?
Speaker 0 00:07:18 No, no. Not at all. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:07:21 So how did you actually heal? You said music was a big part of it. So how did you, did you, you didn't go back into a church and lead worship again, I assume? No. So how did you, you ca you said you came to recognize that music really was part of the inspirational piece in that Yeah. Part of your life. How did you pick that back up?
Speaker 0 00:07:42 Man, so I, like, I was at Bible college and that's when I figured out all this like for sure was like, okay, I have to like experience and see if this is what I am. And this is cuz the thoughts were just getting louder and louder mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, it happened while I was at Bible college and they don't really like that there. So I'd already been, uh, hurt by a church in the past. Cause I worked at one and my mom was like, we're gonna get you outta here. Let's not do this. Um, so after that I was pretty distraught for a while. That's when all the confusion was coming up. Yeah. But then as I just kept growing and growing into myself and to my own beliefs, I realized there's not one way of life. And it's, I've just, it was kind of healing just to be myself and write songs for people like me. You know what I'm saying? It was like healing for myself, but other people heal from it as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so that was kind of the big thing. Like, I wrote my song, but Jesus loves me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and that's like my little baby that's like, ugh. That's the one I'm like, shoot. Um, it's controversial. It's very controversial. If you wanna get heated, go look at the YouTube comments. Like, they're not nice. Oh
Speaker 2 00:08:43 Yeah. Well it's, you're, they're not nice. You're putting religion in the middle of the conversation. Yes. So it's going to bring those types of folks. Yes. But I mean, that's why we're here too.
Speaker 0 00:08:52 That's the goal though. Like <laugh> Well
Speaker 2 00:08:53 It's not the, it's almost not the goal. It's almost to just figure out like it's easier to dismiss extremist comments. Yeah. And it's, it's more, it's, it's so much more something you can appreciate when people realize, well I still completely disagree, but I totally understand where you're coming from now. Yeah. That's a starting point. Yes. You know, for somebody to come there, I, we don't need 'em to agree, like you said, look mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're not, you're not trying to convince someone of anything. You're being yourself. But if they were curious and you had enough to explain Yeah. Uh, your happiness and everything else and perhaps the different circumstances you've been through Yeah. And how music has healed that. I find that fascinating too. Because now music can not just have to be something that you are trying to put out there so that people hear your stuff. Yeah. Which obviously everybody wants to <laugh>, but it, it's meaningful and purposeful now. Yeah. So have you had anybody respond with that kind of thing? Certainly that song, if you even want to talk about it.
Speaker 0 00:09:50 I definitely have. That's actually how I met Kelsey. She saw that video and she messaged me cuz she was in church and everything. And um, I've had multiple people just be like, I've needed to hear this. Like, I grew up religious or my family's religious. They don't, they don't accept me, they don't whatever. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the story goes on. But yeah, I've definitely gotten really good feedback from it and bad feedback, you know, negatively on the other side. But I think as long as the bad feedback keeps coming, I need to keep singing it. Cuz that's the point is that I want people to know that everybody's loved, um, no matter who they love.
Speaker 2 00:10:20 Is that, is that the purpose of the song? If so, yeah. When you put it out, did you ex anticipate there's gonna be backlash and support? Both. Oh
Speaker 0 00:10:29 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:10:29 Oh yeah. But the purpose was,
Speaker 0 00:10:31 There's even backlash from the gay Christians. I'm like, cuz of one word I put in the song, I'm like, dude, y'all just wanna be mad <laugh>. Like, everybody just wants to be mad.
Speaker 2 00:10:38 <laugh>. Yes. Well it's much easier to be mad, especially when you're half anonymous online. Yeah. Literally. So you can't worry about that. Literally.
Speaker 0 00:10:44 But to go back to your question on healing, like I don't think it was just music in general. I definitely like got therapy and I definitely got medicine when I need medicine, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't think you have to stay on it forever, but it can be helpful if you use it. Right. Um, and then to keep going, I've started being active, working out, like stretching, reading all of that stuff kind of together with the music and it's healthy self-expression. It's healthy. Yeah. It like, it balances me out. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? So I've just, I need all of it. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:11:12 And so, and so now you write, and is most of your material kind of cross purpose or what is the, what is the basic vibe or do you have stuff that goes all over the place? I
Speaker 0 00:11:22 Kinda am going a little more all over the place cuz I was writing very close to me for a long time. And then I think that kind of bogged me down because I'm like, you wanna stay true and you wanna stay real in what you're writing, but it's hard if you're not inspired or you're not going through anything. Right. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 00:11:36 You're not struggling now, so
Speaker 0 00:11:37 Yeah. You're not struggling now. So my like newest song, gravity, it's just like a fun dance song like about me and my girlfriend going to a club, like having fun mm-hmm. <affirmative> and um, yeah, I think I've definitely broadened my horizons on writing for sure. But when I first started it was mostly like, just things I thought and dealt with.
Speaker 2 00:11:52 When did you start writing? Writing?
Speaker 0 00:11:55 Hmm. When I was a kid I would like write little poems and stuff and like little songs. Even like fourth grade, fifth grade, they were terrible. They were like absolutely godawful.
Speaker 2 00:12:05 Yeah. I won't make you play those, but I understood. But you had a kn though. It wasn't something you had to practice. Something
Speaker 0 00:12:10 Called me like it was calling me and I would write it down. I started playing guitar when I was like seven. So after that I just, I don't know, I wanted to express myself in some way and I didn't really, like, I put a video on Facebook when I was like, what? 12 of original song. And then I put one on SoundCloud when I was in high school. So that was kinda like the first time of like getting 'em out, you know?
Speaker 2 00:12:32 That's so that's usually a big step too, right?
Speaker 0 00:12:34 Oh yeah. It's the scariest one.
Speaker 2 00:12:35 <laugh> first one you put out there and say, I think it's okay, but
Speaker 0 00:12:39 We'll see. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:41 So that's, and that's great and obviously that trended into a lot of the other stuff that you put out. Yeah. So now you play as you're, you're a solo artist. Would you consider yourself a solo artist? Cuz you play with a band when you're live other than um, appreciably you play a lot of acoustic gigs in between. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:12:59 I mean, your band shows. I mean, I would say so. Yeah. I just, I prefer playing with a band though, so I don't know. I guess, yeah, I just, I'm an artist cuz I create the music with, uh, my producer Brandon. So like, we come up with the music and then I was playing with a bunch of different musicians for a while, but now I've been playing with my, uh, friend's band Lighthouse. So they've been backing me up and it's kind of nice to have just like a group of people that
Speaker 2 00:13:18 Are good are at playing amongst with each other too. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:13:21 So like, we're all just locked in and Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:23 That's very cool idea. Yeah. So how'd you come across those guys?
Speaker 0 00:13:26 Um, so I'd actually known Alex for a while because my original, one of my original drummers Troy, uh, and my bass player Anthony, they moved to LA and so he had introduced me to Alex for a while and he would come around when we would rehearse and stuff mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then they were like, Hey, like, he was like, if you want, we're available for you and we can all play together. And I was like, dude, heck yeah, for sure. Like, let's go. It's a plug and play. Yeah. Like let's do it. And so we've done a couple, couple things so far. Um,
Speaker 2 00:13:53 But And that's new though, right? Yeah. That outfit is new.
Speaker 0 00:13:56 Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:13:57 Okay. So
Speaker 0 00:13:57 Because I did like more of the cover gig mo model where I would just reach out to all the musicians I know and see who's available, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative> and kinda just put random bands together. Which I still like doing that cuz I love playing with everybody. But yeah, it is nice to like get the set down and just, it's,
Speaker 2 00:14:11 It's curious to me too because I've, I've often thought about how different it would feel and I've been on both sides and I enjoy playing with different people or whatever too. But it's always different when you feel like, alright, you're coming in, I'm gonna feed you my music and then everybody is just used to doing their thing Yeah. At your behest and you just wonder how really inspiring is it to them. Do you ever Yeah. Wonder when you're having to, to, you know, to source it out to different people? If they're Yeah. If they come in and I mean I, I have great friends that are musicians at the highest level Yeah. Of the universe that do that stuff and they, they love doing it. Yeah. But I just, you know, and I've played in original bands with 'em too, so I know, know they can be passionate. Yeah. But it doesn't seem like every it kinda side gig guy is that way.
Speaker 0 00:14:56 Yeah. It depends on the person. Most of the guys I play with though, were like, we're pretty good friends. So like we just have a good time. And my guitarist who actually, so I have my original three, two moved to LA one moved to Austin. Okay. And so my guitarist who moved to Austin, he was like, yeah, like 10 musicians I've told that I've played with you and they, they wanna get on the gig too. And I was like, what? I was like, people are hearing about it and wanna play with me. That's crazy. <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:15:19 That's really
Speaker 0 00:15:19 Cool. I was like, and that, cuz for me that's like the highest honor because the musicianship is like, they all make me look like shit and I love it. Like that's what they're supposed to do, you know what I mean? Like, they're crazy. They bring me up and so I'm like the level of talent that y'all have and y'all wanna play with me that Yeah. That's like the biggest, the biggest honor to
Speaker 2 00:15:35 Me. Yeah. And that is, I was, and I've made mention that, that I was gonna ask about your band cuz I know Yeah. Uh, one or two of them North Texas guys too. Yes, yes. Okay. So yeah, I was a North Texas guy too, and it's, heck yeah. It's a, it's an accomplishment, you know, to, to go through that rigorous stuff. Even, even though 70% of 'em go take a gig and leave school <laugh> still, it, it's still saying something. Oh yeah. So how did you, how do you come upon linking up with these people in the first place? Cuz obviously you didn't go to that school. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But, but doesn't wish I did, doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 0 00:16:07 I wish I did. Now I'm like man, oh dude, I would be the cra I would be crazy. But yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:11 Hey everybody has their own path and it's you, you are you for that reason. Yeah. And you know, I see, I do see people that go there and get stuck in the cycle of trying to light their chops, sorry, to such an extent that Yeah. They kinda lose, they lose the vibe of playing music. Yeah. And more try to get into playing their instrument to the INS degree and mm-hmm. <affirmative> and less about the music. And so it's kind of a psych cyclical thing. Once you get that good, the really good ones come back and can play something simple and make it sound amazing.
Speaker 0 00:16:40 Yes. Right. Yes. Yes. I, so I met all of these guys cause I started doing cover gigs around like 20 18, 20 19. Okay. And I met this guy Domingo at Cantina Laredo in Louisville. Like out of all places, my first little gig that I had, I had my acoustic guitar, my little binder with like literally pages that I just printed from Ultimate Guitar. Like that's, it was crazy my first ever, but he saw something in me and he had like a concept cover band where like I said, he gets all the musicians together, just pulls random people and we play. So he invited me to come play at Mayfest and that's where I met Anthony, who's my bass player and then Dallas who's my guitarist. And that was like, I think 2019 ish.
Speaker 2 00:17:20 Okay. And you were playing cover stuff at
Speaker 0 00:17:22 Mafa? We were playing cover stuff and I had dark black hair like this long, like I completely different person, you know what I'm saying? And so
Speaker 2 00:17:29 Yeah. Could have played Motley Crue or something. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:17:31 <laugh>. I think I had an eye rope using at one point too. Took that out though. But thank God. Um,
Speaker 2 00:17:36 So what did, were you playing guitar singing? What were you doing there?
Speaker 0 00:17:39 I was singing and playing. I might have been playing acoustic or just singing. I forget. Okay. Cause it was a full band. Um, so I met them and we just all hit it off like became cool like good friends and I was was like, y'all wanna play together? Like I have a, I have a thing I'm trying to do. And they were down. And so they opened my eyes to a whole new world of musicianship that I had never seen. Yeah. And then in turn, so Domingo, he's, I call him like my music dad cuz he picked me up and he took me everywhere. He's the reason I can like cover gig full-time cause that's what I do for work, um, as of now. Um, awesome. But yeah, he took me to all the different places and just threw me in there and I met a whole bunch of musicians and we've all just become kind of cool with each other.
Speaker 2 00:18:17 That's very cool. And that's also a rarity. Yes. And I congratulate you because uh, uh, so many musicians, you know, I, I made a living on music for so long teaching lessons and playing gigs and doing Yeah. Short stints. Of course the short stints on the road are where you lose money cuz you're having to cancel students. I haven't done yet. You've gotta be gone for four days. Yeah. You gotta cancel all your students and then go, you know, take an 87 suburban out to Arkansas and you know, make enough money to pay for your merch, you know. Oh. But, uh, but it's admirable because that's, that does say something that you have to be really determined to do that. Yeah. And most other musicians that say they're full-time musicians really just sell weed and play music. Yeah. <laugh> selling weed is where they make their money. <laugh>. Uh, so that's, that's fascinating. Um, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:18:59 I'm really very, really thankful for Domingo cuz he definitely changed the changed trajectory of my life and it's been very, very, very helpful and such a blessing.
Speaker 2 00:19:08 So. And is he the one that went out to LA?
Speaker 0 00:19:12 No, he's still here. So we still do like duo gigs and uh, full band gigs together. Oh fantastic. With this cover band. Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, he's awesome.
Speaker 2 00:19:19 So, and I noticed your last gig too. So your live stuff is all live music or do you have any tracks or anything? You
Speaker 0 00:19:28 Play it? We have tracks for like synth and stuff cuz I don't have a keys player and I don't, I can't afford one. Yeah, yeah. So <laugh> No,
Speaker 2 00:19:33 No, I get it. But I mean, generally speaking it's a, it's a live performance scenario. Yes. Yes. And your last, uh, your last joint gravity is mm-hmm. <affirmative> is a little bit more sample based. Yeah. So what are your thoughts on, uh, sampling has been, you know, integral since the eighties even So, well we actually kinda coming in, building up and building up, but
Speaker 0 00:19:53 We didn't use any loops. But uh, I did use just like sounds cuz I did all the pre-production on it. Um Okay. And we didn't actually use like samples really. We just kinda, I mean, I guess if you count like a crash or like placing them, I don't know, <laugh>, I think a sample is like a loop, but I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:20:08 Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Well and I guess there is a difference and maybe you can explain the difference for people who wouldn't know the difference between a loop and, and sampling something or Yeah. You know, playing a vamp and then, you know, pasting those four bars forward. Yeah. Maybe explain the difference so that people understand what that, what the difference is.
Speaker 0 00:20:25 Um, so with loops I kind of use splice sometimes if I'm trying to get an idea. So it's more of like, it's got the whole beat, it's got the whole base like line in it, it's got whatever, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I guess you can sample a certain sound and then play it yourself is, which is what I did. Right. So I don't know if that tells the difference very well,
Speaker 2 00:20:44 But Oh yeah. And okay, so yeah, you, you were inspired by loops that and people that create loops are also Yeah. Creative people. Oh, oh my gosh. Yeah. They're gonna the studio and putting all this stuff in and it's great
Speaker 0 00:20:56 Stuff. Splice is a really good tool for sure to get ideas flowing and Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:20:59 Yeah. So, and it, and I think anyone that would talk down to that is missing the point because other people have, you know, in ancient times, like when I'm, where I'm from <laugh>, you're listening to other music to get inspiration anyway. So nothing is, everybody's being built in on it on one another.
Speaker 0 00:21:17 Nothing's truly original. Even if you think you made it up, you didn't, you just subconscious that's in there <laugh>. Yes. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 00:21:23 Just gotta double check yourself sometimes like that.
Speaker 0 00:21:24 Yeah. We're all like tapped into whole thing, think heard this certain thing that's like inspiration, this creativity and when you tap into it, it's not yours. You know what I'm saying? I didn't, I'm not gonna be like, oh yeah I did that. Like no something else in me that I tapped into like help me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Well, but
Speaker 2 00:21:38 That's a special gift so you do need to have some self-appreciation because it is something that most people cannot do. Yeah. I mean even the things that you feel like are simple are usually things that people are like, man, I wish I could do that. And you're like, well it's not that hard.
Speaker 0 00:21:51 The only thing that makes sense to me. So Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:21:53 It's <laugh>. I know.
Speaker 0 00:21:54 Yeah. Like it's the only thing that flows easily to me <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:21:57 So with, with the AI stuff, I've been freaking out over hearing how that, do you have any concerns or are you of the Paul McCartney ilk where you're probably gonna just embrace it and come up with something crazy to do with it?
Speaker 0 00:22:13 I mean, I can't really, like, I'm not gonna be the one to change it, so I kind of don't, I don't wanna resist too much, you know, just cuz it's gonna happen. Yeah. So he might as well flow with it. Yeah. Even if you like it or not. That's kind of what I'm, that's where I'm at. Cuz me and my producer Brandon talk about it and he's like, it's really cool. It's gonna be awesome. And I'm like, eh, I don't know. Like I know it feels, and we talk about it cuz we have different opinions and stuff and I'm like, I, my opinion really doesn't matter because I'm got, I'm just gonna have to go with it anyways if I wanna keep doing music. You know.
Speaker 2 00:22:40 So do you have any ideas on how you or other artists might differentiate themselves from
Speaker 0 00:22:46 Mm-hmm. I don't, the only thing I can really think of is just to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm like, other than that I can't beat a robot. But also there's something to humanness that robots can't touch either, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 00:22:59 Well, for sure. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of the point is figuring out how, cuz you, you know, with musicians, especially someone you know, when you're still young and coming up and you have all this, you have a cool vibe and you have the, the videos that go with it and the, you know, it's all part of a package. Yeah. And when they can emulate it to such an extent, it seems to remove some of people's identity. If they say, look, I I wanna do something that's like Avery, then all of a sudden it dilutes you as a person. Yeah. Right. Because they're creating something that is, that is much and you're so unique and yet now they're gonna create something that makes you less unique when they duplicate the things you're doing. Yeah. Does that concern you or,
Speaker 0 00:23:41 I mean, it's scary for sure. It's definitely scary. I think where, where it'll really show is just the live performance. Cuz you can't really, like, you can track that and stuff, but there's, there's something too, like an actual performer that you can't fake. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And for sure they have the AI per, or the meta performances or AI performances and stuff and they're cartoons or whatever. I don't know, I, I don't know if you've seen that. It's kind of crazy to me. Yeah. But there's something about a live show and the feeling of a live show and just being with all those people together, all of you that you can't, you can't recreate and you can't have a robot make that either. You can't have robots just like, you know what I'm saying, <laugh>, well
Speaker 2 00:24:16 Maybe one day don't think they're gonna move like that. Worry about maybe one day it's like me dancing. I mean they dilute me maybe, but I dunno about you <laugh>. So, um, so you said you grew up in the mid cities Yes. Between Dallas and Fort Worth for our national folks that are watching. Um, what was one of the more impactful things? You have such a unique upbringing and you started music so, so early. Yeah. What was more one of the more impactful things that you experienced when you were growing up? Hmm. Either an experience or a story or something that happened that just kind of changed the trajectory of your life.
Speaker 0 00:24:52 Man, honestly, like even going back to the religious stuff, I think seeing through that at such a young age really helped me and really changed everything for me because I probably would've been a worship leader for the rest of my life. Or like, you know,
Speaker 2 00:25:04 And struggling behind the scenes. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:25:06 Like been gay, like and not been actively gay. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like it would've just been weird. So I think like getting hurt by the church really changed everything for me because that was so ingrained in me and such a big part of my identity that I gave to myself. Which is kind of really weird to think about now cuz I'm so far removed and out of it. Yeah. But yeah, I think definitely seeing the humanness in religion in church at such a young age kind of
Speaker 2 00:25:32 That's great. Switched
Speaker 0 00:25:33 Everything
Speaker 2 00:25:33 Up. Yeah. That's insightful too. It's hard to do because you didn't create that background for, I mean that's, you know, that's, your parents kind of create that for you so they can set you in or whatever, but Yeah. Yeah. If you can figure out your path earlier than later does
Speaker 0 00:25:47 Oh yeah. It's crazy.
Speaker 2 00:25:48 Help you identify yourself.
Speaker 0 00:25:49 Well I'm 25 now, so it's crazy to like see people who are stuck in it and who, it's like I see myself at an earlier age, but they're like older than me, you know what I'm saying? And they're stuck in that mindset. I'm like, I would take any type of pain and anything that happened, I would do it again so I wouldn't have to still be there. Yeah. Cause that's just not a place to live. And it's not the real religious judgmental part of it is not love and it's not God and it's not anything I wanna be a part of cuz that's all I wanna do in my life is just show people that they're loved and they're accepted and they're, it's cool to be who you are. It doesn't matter. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I don't know. I wanna take it back and it's cool cuz like my family too, we're all on the same journey together, like of spirituality and we're kind of all on the same boat right now. Like, we believe that there is a God, we believe that there's a creator and we're more tapped into that frequency of just loving people, loving ourselves. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, stealing ourselves, taking care of ourselves so we can love people better. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's not religious, it's not anything like that. It's just pure, like we're chilling. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 00:26:49 <laugh> Yeah. And religion has a stigma and it shouldn't Yeah. But it it does because of people like that. Yeah. That, that are so judgmental because
Speaker 0 00:26:56 Not all religious people are, you know, not all of 'em are Right. There's nothing you could say that's just definite about it, but there's a lot of loud ones.
Speaker 2 00:27:03 <laugh>. Yeah, I understand. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Religion and college. Sports and <laugh> and politics. Those are things you don't usually engage unless you really love the person you're talking to. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:27:14 Like, okay. Can we just talk about fun stuff? <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:27:18 So musically, what do you see yourself doing in the next 10 years or so? Or is that even too far out?
Speaker 0 00:27:26 Man, I just wanna be doing it forever. I'm like, I'm currently in the phase where I'm trying to get out of D F W and play more outside of that. So I'd like to be on a tour. Um, I'd like to headline my own tour at some point. I don't know like how long it'll be till that happens. Um, but yeah, I would definitely like to just go and travel and play anywhere that I can. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:47 Yeah. Make your living doing that. Yes. And yeah. So travel doesn't bother you a lot either.
Speaker 0 00:27:51 No, I love, I love it. And my girlfriend loves traveling too, so she's a ER nurse but she's like, I only wanna do this for a little bit and then I'm gonna go <laugh>. Cause she's like, she's just always traveling. She loves traveling. So I'm like, it's perfect. It's literally perfect.
Speaker 2 00:28:04 Well that's a good job to have too. To be able to, to stow a little nut and spend it on a vacation and that's a good way to spend it. You gotta live
Speaker 0 00:28:11 Literally. Yes. Literally. Literally.
Speaker 2 00:28:14 It's a different lifestyle too. It used to be what I always dreamt of doing and then, you know, so many of my friends do that all the time. And when I see 'em at my age still doing it, I still admire them. But I also would not want to go to sleep on a cubby and a bus that many days a week. I hope it would make me nuts. But it is a, it is a fascinating opportunity. I hope that you pick up some little things. I think it would be easier for you to jump onto a tour than you think. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:28:40 That's what, that's what I'm praying for. That's what I'm trying to make happen. And yeah. Trying to figure that out. Cause I haven't got to sleep on the buses yet, but I'm excited cause it's an experience I've heard <laugh>. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:28:50 No, it can be. And you take your people, people with you so you know who you're bringing and you'll be good to go. Oh yeah.
Speaker 0 00:28:55 It's good.
Speaker 2 00:28:55 Oh yeah, I know there's one person who's going
Speaker 0 00:28:58 And it's good. I can like, I can sleep so good in cars and planes. Like I can fall asleep before a plane takes off. Like cars like lull me to sleep so I'm like works out, checks out.
Speaker 2 00:29:08 Oh, that is perfect. So, uh, I did wanna ask you about, since we're sticking on the music vibe too mm-hmm <affirmative> and then you can talk about anything else that you have in progress too. But cool. Um, what is your writing process? Because everybody, all musicians have a different process and they all think it's the one or what every, but everybody has their individual process. What's
Speaker 0 00:29:28 Yours? Get frustrated and rage quit. No, I'm just kidding. <laugh>. Um, but sometimes that is the process. Yes. It kinda depends though. Cause I've been like, I, I produce a little bit like I get my ideas down on logic. So like sometimes I'll start with the music part, you know, and the instrumental part. And that's kind of what has called me a lot. I was struggling writing lyrics for a long time cuz I was just, I had a writer's block. Dude, it's hard. It's so hard cause it's like you're writing rmi words. How do you make it not super cheesy like it is though. Like it kind of has to be. So,
Speaker 2 00:29:58 And you were a poet when you started And I was the same too. Yeah. I could write lyrics if they're just lyrics. I could write a poem.
Speaker 0 00:30:05 Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 00:30:06 But you know, I come up with the music first and then try to match something to the, to the vibe. It gives me, it does become really, yes. A giant pain. So
Speaker 0 00:30:13 It's, it's crazy cuz I'll get like little lines sometimes and I'll like write 'em in my notes and then sometimes like it'll just flood and it'll come to me. But most of the time the music comes easier and the writing is harder for me. Um, so I kind of have to sit with my, like my producer will come up with something and then he'll be like, okay, do you want me to leave? And I'm like, yeah, get out. And so like I sit with myself and I just listen a bunch. I try to like hear nothing at first mm-hmm. <affirmative> and just see how the music sounds. And then I just, I try to find melodies and then try to find words that go with the melodies. So it kind of depends on the day, but
Speaker 2 00:30:45 Yeah. So you do the haw stuff over, over the track for a while. Yeah. And, and yeah. See if any of those melodic things sound right.
Speaker 0 00:30:52 Yeah. So I hum it out. And then I've noticed that like physically writing instead of just like typing in my phone actually helps me a lot too. Sometimes I'll doodle and stuff too just to like start moving my hand. I have to like get out the bad stuff first and then, you know, clear it for the good stuff.
Speaker 2 00:31:04 Yeah, well that's stuff you can sell down the road too. Yeah, exactly. Save it, you know. Exactly.
Speaker 0 00:31:09 It's
Speaker 2 00:31:09 Still gonna be some places you can sell that online.
Speaker 0 00:31:12 Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, it's, so it's kinda all different, but
Speaker 2 00:31:16 Yeah. So when your producer, is he engineering and producing, mastering do the whole shebang and helping write and everything or?
Speaker 0 00:31:24 So Brandon does the production and uh, engineering and stuff, but then Bradley, our f our, our guy Bradley, he mixes and masters it. So. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:31:32 That's fantastic. Yes. So you kind of have a co-writer. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:35 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:31:35 Does you get points and stuff too? Do you usually
Speaker 0 00:31:37 Do that? Oh yeah. No, we, I I'm a rookie so I'm not set up yet. I on, you know, all of that. What? Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter that I don't have any streams, so I'm not gonna get anything right now anyways. Do
Speaker 2 00:31:49 Do yourself a favor, <laugh>. It doesn't take a lot. Do me a favor, please.
Speaker 0 00:31:54 Well I had, I had one and then someone said the other one was better, so I was like, okay, gonna cancel it and go to the, but yeah, I'm just,
Speaker 2 00:32:00 Just have one there.
Speaker 0 00:32:02 I'm like, nobody if we can take this part out, <laugh>. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:32:05 Yeah. I mean if you're, yeah, my, I mean you've got the, the big three and then the ones kind of more specialized, but Yeah, it's, it's almost like anything else. It's like, hey, what's the best guitar? And then all of a sudden you run into your guitar hero and they're like, no, no, no, no, it's this. You're like, oh, son of a gun. Yeah. It's always something else. Right? So a a, you know, ask Cap or b m i or whatever you, you'll run into somebody that's whatever, but get your stuff in in there. Get it done. Yeah. Get your stuff in there. I will. Cause it's valuable stuff that you have out especially Thank you. You, you got people in other cities that know who you are and are paying attention. I think that's gonna be really important.
Speaker 0 00:32:38 Thank you. You want somebody, this is my sign to get that done. Yes. Get that done like yesterday. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:32:43 <laugh>. Please do. So what are you working on now? Anything brand? You have brand new release that obviously, we'll, we'll post some links and stuff for people that are interested to listen to your stuff. Yeah. Um, what el what are you currently working on?
Speaker 0 00:32:55 So Gravity just came out and now we're working on a new song called Paradise. Um, and that's probably gonna come out within the next month or two. Um, it's my third time riding the bridge so you know how it goes. We've tried two once and we're like nah, <laugh>. And so literally before I came here I went to the water gardens and just sat and just listened and I like wrote before I came here. Um
Speaker 2 00:33:14 Oh fantastic.
Speaker 0 00:33:15 Yeah. Which was really nice. Like sitting in the shade wasn't too bad but,
Speaker 2 00:33:19 And the water kind of gives you, it's humid anyway already. Yeah. So you may as well get fresh water running. Oh
Speaker 0 00:33:23 Yeah, no. Something about being outside when riding and just buy water or like any type of nature like really helps me. Um, so yeah, we got Paradise coming up shooting the cover art for that on Monday and then should be out in the next couple months hopefully.
Speaker 2 00:33:37 And are you doing videos for all of these or some
Speaker 0 00:33:39 Of these We're doing promo videos, but we don't have the budget for music videos right now. Um, we're kind of trying to put most of that into marketing and promotion just cause Great. Putting stuff out and it's not getting heard so we gotta fix the problem to
Speaker 2 00:33:51 Figure out. Yeah, it's, well it's changing. I think it, right? Yeah. It used to be that you had to find a way to come up with all this money and then it became less expensive. Now everybody wants to see the 25 seconds worth of something. Yes, yes. Instead of a video. Anyway,
Speaker 0 00:34:03 She helps me with the TikTok stuff cuz I, I hate it. I suck at it. Like I, I'm getting better, but she helps me a lot for sure. This is Kelsey. Also, if you've seen like my videos, she makes most of them really. So Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:34:16 So maybe, maybe there's a dual purpose in her showing up today too. Cause if you saw my post she'd be like, you would feel like a master <laugh>. You saw mine, you're like, wow, that's pretty random. Yeah, it's random.
Speaker 0 00:34:28 It's all random. Everything is no, but yeah, we're trying to figure out how to, you know, do it in the, the most cost effective way we can, which TikTok is a good tool for that because if you hit it you can hit it really big. Um, yeah, just haven't figured out how to do that. So we're trying to figure out ads and different ways of marketing and yeah. All that good stuff.
Speaker 2 00:34:46 That's awesome. Yeah. Well if there's anything I can ever do to help you, thank you. I support what you're doing and appreciate the fact that you shared a lot of your guts here <laugh> and uh, you know, cuz I know, I know it takes guts to put all that stuff out there. So Yeah, I say it and I joke a little bit, but it, it really does take guts to put yourself out there. Thank and be proud to just be who you are. So Thank you. So I am proud to know you and I appreciate you. Thank, thank you for,
Speaker 0 00:35:10 For having spending time for seriously I'm, thank you for even caring about what I do and listening to my stuff cuz even just getting someone to listen is kind of tough sometimes. So thank for even. Yeah. Thank you for even caring enough and having me here and like having a place for people to share themselves. It's really cool that you do that so well.
Speaker 2 00:35:27 Thank you. That's all you, I wouldn't have had anybody else direct me unless I've found you randomly. So that's something.
Speaker 0 00:35:35 How did you, I feel like we know a bunch of people that are similar. Like probably Yeah, I mean we know like everybody.
Speaker 2 00:35:39 Yeah. I mean I, you know, I was in the music music industry for so many years, got out and then back in and I'm just trying to do stuff like this that heck Yeah. Share important messages, whether it's through music or the, I mean, I'm a rookie at this too. Yeah. Obviously I'm getting better. You go back and look at the ones that are about a year and a half old, they're, they're okay interviews but pretty bad sets. But
Speaker 0 00:36:00 Hey, you gotta have that base level. You gotta,
Speaker 2 00:36:02 I'm working on it. All you can do is just keep I'm working on it. Yeah. Keep going. And I even musically, you know, I have the same ideas I had when I was playing at North Texas or touring or whatever. Yeah. But your chops go away. Yeah. If you, if you lay it down for a few years and then try to come back. My ideas are still there, but I can't play them yet. So it's, I'm just still, I enjoy that process too. Yeah. Because it's, uh, I'm
Speaker 0 00:36:23 Uncovering
Speaker 2 00:36:23 Again. Yeah. There's a lot of musicians that are still, you know, wanna show up three hours late and Oh do all that mess. So I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna learn how to play it myself Yeah. And get it done that way. So that's the best though. I have, I have a gr great appreciation for all that stuff that you have to do and the fact that you have people that you lead and everything else, I think that's really gonna carry forward. So thank you. Congrats.
Speaker 0 00:36:42 Thank you so much. I'm excited. Yes ma'am. I'm real excited. We gotta do something too. Yeah. Gotta make something together.
Speaker 3 00:36:50 What you going to do? What you do? Successor sand Watch for second grade rules. A confident to make you do, do what they want. The one see through don't that sweet end truth. Soul motion frame lane. If.
